Guillermo
member
the crazy coon-ass is not a new phenomenon
But it can be avoided if you travel to Texas on a regular basis.
Somehow it calms the craziness.
enough is enough?
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the crazy coon-ass is not a new phenomenon
But it can be avoided if you travel to Texas on a regular basis.
Somehow it calms the craziness.
mesinge2
Member
Vern Humphrey
Member
You know what they say in Louisiana?
"What's the difference getween a coon ass and a horse's ass? The Sabine River."
(BTW, I'm a native-born Texan.)
Guillermo
member
Vern...ouch!!!!
at least we pronounce it right
"sa bine" not "say been"
at least we pronounce it right
"sa bine" not "say been"
David E
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Why not load it with hollowpoints? Non +P if necessary. The 158 RNL was called the "widow maker" for a reason.
bluethunder1962
Member
I love the357. But 38 spec or plus p are great for defence. It is all you need
Dismissed by whom? Gun writers?
rswartsell
Member
Guillermo,
That strategy worked so well for Jack Ruby, Charles Whitman, John Wesley Hardin, et. al. that I regularly cross the border to Caddo Lake and get the soothing effects of Marshall, Jefferson and of course Tyler. I'm sure I am a better man for it. In the interest of full disclosure though I am a recent "coon-ass" (2 years). The debilitating effects haven't had that long to work.
I am a true son of Washington County Virginia, the bustling metropolis of Mendota to be precise. So I will thank you all to address me by the time honored title of "Hillbilly", more accurate than coon-ass as long as I am regularly anitdoting Lone Star influence.
As far as crazy? Well, Hillbilly is pretty powerful (as in that's gonna leave a mark) and you can judge by studyin' up on Popcorn Sutton. That's really my neck of the woods.
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My (close family member) works for a very large M.E.'s office, and has seen what the Speer .357 Mag 135-grain Short Barrel can do to a human body, and more importantly how it behaved at the death scene. As I recall, penetration of the torso was complete, with the exiting bullet having very little energy, so it barely dinged what it hit afterward. The decedent ceased movement immediately, and died instantly, with little bleeding.
Guillermo
member
Paddle Faster...I hear rswartsell's banjo!!! 
rswartsell
Member
LMAO, thats a good'n thar Tex.
P.S. Where I come from mental therapy consists of some of Popcorn's sippin' whiskey, high speed bluegrass and a roll with the local tarnished angels. No wonder the region has such a stellar reputation for well adjusted intellectuals and spritual lights.
P.S. Where I come from mental therapy consists of some of Popcorn's sippin' whiskey, high speed bluegrass and a roll with the local tarnished angels. No wonder the region has such a stellar reputation for well adjusted intellectuals and spritual lights.
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Dear Schneider, with respect, my above account was not anecdotal. This family member is an M.D., and blood spatter evidence is a science. Please note I said family member, not relative.
Blood can either be pumped out, by a still-living heart, or can drain through the effect of gravity. The decedent's heart stopped beating immediately, in this case, therefore it stopped pumping blood. The bleeding that occurred was by gravity.
I may be a layman, in medical terms, but have seen enough death scenes, while wearing a badge, and in training photos, to discuss the matter intelligently. Obviously, I cannot post scene photos on-line, even ones I take myself; I do photograph crime scenes as a designated fingerprint/picture patrol unit. This is a step "below" a CSI/CSU type of unit, but being a first responder, with a Crown Vic as an office, I get to see and hear things when the event is much fresher, and sometimes still in progress.
FWIW, the standard-pressure Federal .357 Magnum 125-grain JHP I launched, once upon a time, did indeed result in massive bleeding, as the dead-man-walking had a heart that was still pumping, and the bullet did pass through that heart. The entry wound did not close, as is typical of handgun wounds.
To this day, I still like protecting myself with .357 Mag, though I am realistic, and do not
carry the full-pressure loads in snubbies, and usually carry a somewhat moderate load
(Winchester Silvertip) in my 4" Model 19.
Blood can either be pumped out, by a still-living heart, or can drain through the effect of gravity. The decedent's heart stopped beating immediately, in this case, therefore it stopped pumping blood. The bleeding that occurred was by gravity.
I may be a layman, in medical terms, but have seen enough death scenes, while wearing a badge, and in training photos, to discuss the matter intelligently. Obviously, I cannot post scene photos on-line, even ones I take myself; I do photograph crime scenes as a designated fingerprint/picture patrol unit. This is a step "below" a CSI/CSU type of unit, but being a first responder, with a Crown Vic as an office, I get to see and hear things when the event is much fresher, and sometimes still in progress.
FWIW, the standard-pressure Federal .357 Magnum 125-grain JHP I launched, once upon a time, did indeed result in massive bleeding, as the dead-man-walking had a heart that was still pumping, and the bullet did pass through that heart. The entry wound did not close, as is typical of handgun wounds.
To this day, I still like protecting myself with .357 Mag, though I am realistic, and do not
carry the full-pressure loads in snubbies, and usually carry a somewhat moderate load
(Winchester Silvertip) in my 4" Model 19.
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OK, the Free Online Dictionary defines anecdotal as "based upon casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis."
Well, the account I typed, above, was stated to me by a respected professional in her field, who was present at the scene, conducting an investigation performed to scientific standards. Of course, one incident is simply one data point, not a complete study, but there was nothing casual about it.
I am not asking anyone to accept anything typed anonymously on the web as scientific, so what I am saying, here on THR, is indeed anecdotal.
Moreover, I am not trying to convert anyone to using the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135-grain load, in .357 Mag, .38 +P, or anything else. Anyone who wishes to use anything else, such as a full wadcutter, has my blessing. Indeed, I recently purchased a box of Buffalo Bore full wadcutter defensive .38 ammo, to see how it does in my snubbies. If I feel it suits me, I may buy more of it, and carry it in the future, especially as the Speer Short Barrel .357 is so difficult to find in stock anywhere.
Doc3402
Member
When carrying a snubbie I always carry a .357 loaded with .357 magnum cartridges of some sort. My spare ammo is always .38 Special +P.
My daughter carries a .38 Special revolver so I want interchangeability of ammunition once our initial loads are gone.
This is something I learned way back when in my PD days and it never went away. Having a pocket full of .357 won't get you covering fire when your partner is out of ammo for his .38 Special.
Over-penetration is not now nor will it ever be a concern to me. As long as Murphy's Law is still on the books chances are pretty good that at least one round is going to miss. This is not a reflection on my abilities. It's a real life possibility when faced with the massive adrenalin dump common in fight or flight situations. Besides, tailoring my ammo to compensate for poor safety practices never sat well with me.
My daughter carries a .38 Special revolver so I want interchangeability of ammunition once our initial loads are gone.
This is something I learned way back when in my PD days and it never went away. Having a pocket full of .357 won't get you covering fire when your partner is out of ammo for his .38 Special.
Over-penetration is not now nor will it ever be a concern to me. As long as Murphy's Law is still on the books chances are pretty good that at least one round is going to miss. This is not a reflection on my abilities. It's a real life possibility when faced with the massive adrenalin dump common in fight or flight situations. Besides, tailoring my ammo to compensate for poor safety practices never sat well with me.
Vern Humphrey
Member
That makes it anecdotal. We have no idea where that one data point lies on the regression line.
Depends on the gun and the use
J1
My first duty gun was a .357 S&W model 13. We carried 110 grain jhp in it. The 158 grain lhp +P .38 Special kicked just as hard or worse and was less effective, so why bother. Their was no problem at all with over penetration in the .357 magnum using either the 110 grain or 125 grain jhp loads.
The .357 magnum 125 grain jhp was the benchmark for stopping power when I started in law enforcement. It has been equaled by several rounds now. The downside was the brutal muzzle blast, foot long flash as seen by one of the firearms officers when I qualified on an August day and terrible noise.
We used the 110 grain load for that reason.
The 158 grain +P kicks to hard for me in the only .38 Special I still use, a 5 shot snub rose. I used to carry them off duty, but now use a SIG 232 in .380ACP.
If I needed to go back to a revolver and it was for a medium frame or larger gun, then I would go with the .357 magnum. If I carry the weight and bulk, whey not the power.
In a small frame gun, I do not want even +P. I use 125 grain NYCLAD hollow point and trade power for control and abilty to hit the target.
I shot some 125 jhp +P in a CHARTER ARMS 6 shot snubnose recently and it was painful to me. I can no longer tolerate the recoil abuse like when I was 25years old.
On the other hand, I took a female co worker shooting. She had a S&W model 66 with a 4 inch barrel. She had not fired it in years and wanted it for a house and car gun.
We started out with wadcutters and she did fine. Then 158 grain roundnose and again it was fine. We moved up to .38 Special 125 +P jhp and she still shot ok.
Last was some 110 grain jhp .357 magnum. She shot it and decided to stick with the 125 grain +P load. I concurred, since she shot as well with it as with standard velocitiy ammo.
The 158 grain lhp +P load might have a marginally better stopping power, but has more recoil in my experience and is inferior to the 110 grain .357 load.
That has been my experience from shooting all the above loads.
Jim
J1
My first duty gun was a .357 S&W model 13. We carried 110 grain jhp in it. The 158 grain lhp +P .38 Special kicked just as hard or worse and was less effective, so why bother. Their was no problem at all with over penetration in the .357 magnum using either the 110 grain or 125 grain jhp loads.
The .357 magnum 125 grain jhp was the benchmark for stopping power when I started in law enforcement. It has been equaled by several rounds now. The downside was the brutal muzzle blast, foot long flash as seen by one of the firearms officers when I qualified on an August day and terrible noise.
We used the 110 grain load for that reason.
The 158 grain +P kicks to hard for me in the only .38 Special I still use, a 5 shot snub rose. I used to carry them off duty, but now use a SIG 232 in .380ACP.
If I needed to go back to a revolver and it was for a medium frame or larger gun, then I would go with the .357 magnum. If I carry the weight and bulk, whey not the power.
In a small frame gun, I do not want even +P. I use 125 grain NYCLAD hollow point and trade power for control and abilty to hit the target.
I shot some 125 jhp +P in a CHARTER ARMS 6 shot snubnose recently and it was painful to me. I can no longer tolerate the recoil abuse like when I was 25years old.
On the other hand, I took a female co worker shooting. She had a S&W model 66 with a 4 inch barrel. She had not fired it in years and wanted it for a house and car gun.
We started out with wadcutters and she did fine. Then 158 grain roundnose and again it was fine. We moved up to .38 Special 125 +P jhp and she still shot ok.
Last was some 110 grain jhp .357 magnum. She shot it and decided to stick with the 125 grain +P load. I concurred, since she shot as well with it as with standard velocitiy ammo.
The 158 grain lhp +P load might have a marginally better stopping power, but has more recoil in my experience and is inferior to the 110 grain .357 load.
That has been my experience from shooting all the above loads.
Jim
Tony_the_tiger
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I've stocked up on the 50 round boxes from g&r tactical, but ATG still has the 20 round boxes in stock http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/produ...135gr-p-hp-ammo/cName/38-special-hollow-point
Although they are a bit pricier at this count, still cheaper than some of the alternatives.
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