entry level Sporting Clays gun.

[RugerMcMarlin]

(Not to be confused with Sporting level Entry Gun)

What would you guys recommend as an entry level Sporting Clays gun and why?
This guy isn't new to shot guns, he hunts but wants to shoot clays.

Any action type, all opinions welcomed.

 

[toivo]

I would probably stay away from the cheaper over/unders -- they tend to have "issues," from what I've seen on the trap field. Pumps aren't great for doubles, so I'd recommend a nice reliable semi-auto: Remington 1100 or 11/87, Beretta 3901, something along those lines. Gas-operated semi-autos have the advantage of less felt recoil, too.

Then if he really gets into it, he can move towards a higher-end O/U. Brownings are nice and not too-too expensive.

 

[tlatoani]

Lanber o/u from cdnn. Great deals.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Like the Technoid, Bruce Buck, I think a name brand gas auto makes a very good choice for a first clays gun. 391, 390, 1100, etc.

It's easy to shim the stocks for best fit, the gas action mitigates kick, and parts as well as aftermarket goodies like custom choke tubes are plentiful.

Downside, only one choke at a time and most autos have less than ideal triggers.

Bruce sayeth, get a gas auto, shoot it for a year, then decide if you need an O/U.

Good advice....

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

The very first thing I would suggest would be to start with the gun he hunts with.
The idea of sporting clays was offseason practice and entertainment. I also think the chief benefit to the novice clays shooter is learning to guage yardage and application of correct choke. If his gun is fixed choke and in Modified or Improved Cylinder, fine also. I have watched guys just starting out
with a new gun make themselves crazy "choke swappin" stand to stand. If they have a gun threaded for choke tubes leave him with IC , MOD tubes and hide the rest. If he hunts with a semi auto same thing. But someone wanting to switch to a semi auto. I would first suggest an action thats recoil operated like the Browning A500, or any of the Benelli, Franchi , maybe not the Stoeger same internals but I havent used one. If he insists on a gas auto I would set him down and have him completely breakdown the action 3 times like you would for cleaning. Then ask him if thinks cleaning would be a pain, it is, and eventually he wont clean it like he's supposed to and he'll have problems shooting crap shells, even good shells will foul it up.
My opinion a pump action is actually an advantage, since it operates on arm power, since you'll so be buying shells bulk, and soon looking for a bargain,you wont buy 3 cases of some thing, and find out it wont operate "your " gun. Only advantages to O/U is choice of 2 chokes, internally not effected by powder fouling. still some ammo sensitivity, a nice one, with backbored barrels and porting, will leave you in search of a shell that Kicks just enough to reset the action so you can use both barrels.The cheaper guns dont do this. If you have to have a ported backbored gun Mossberg 835 is least expensive, good quality barrel on the market. Heavy enough to swing nice, and help with recoil. 0 ammo sesitivity, and I hear you can hunt with them, so all that good practice won't go to waste. Pumps properly operated are an advantage over an auto. Especially if your one of these guys that cleans your gun once a year wether it needs it or not. I also would recommend Remington 870. Express fine also. And for every 40 guns with problems theres 40,000 puttering along just fine.

I also think basing your choice on what the expert down at the store says, is a mistake. First what he likes is not what you like. Second asking the merchant is like asking people that work in an emergency room what they think about guns. THEY ONLY SEE THE PROBLEMS. And they just might have a motive to sell guns. But thats just my opinion

 

[vaherder]

Pumps for Sporting Clays. Why if you can afford a Beretta 3901? Before you recommend a 870 Express have you actually shot and handled one made in last 12mos? Compare to one from 10 years ago.

I would stay away from any current model Remington 1100 or 1187 because QC issues.

Budget? Another fine choice is the Mossberg 930. For a little more money a Browning Silver if you find one at a good price. In the 1100 price range you can also add a Browning Maxus, Beretta A400 and Benelli Vinci.

3901, 930, Vinci, A400 and Maxus should fire any shell appropriate for Sporting Clays down to 7/8oz. I have done rounds of SC with 7/8oz loads with 930,3901, A400, and Maxus. 3/4oz in Maxus and 3901 w/o issue.

But it really comes down to the shotgun that fits your friend best. If it doesnt fit it really doesnt matter how reliable the gun is or what loads it will shoot. A400, 930, 3901, Maxus, and Vinci can all do double duty for hunting and SC. A400, Maxus and Vinci can all be adjusted for fit. I cant remember w/o looking it up if 930 and 3901 can.

No need for 3 1/2in. BTW 930 is made in USA if that matters.

 

[mgregg85]

My father uses a Beretta 391 12ga for hunting/clays, its a great gun. Easy to clean, light recoil and fairly light weight too. I've never seen it jam on him or fail other than one time, we were shooting reloads and a shell that had been reloaded too many times stuck in the mag tube. Upon examining it we found that it was bulged and never should have been loaded into the tube.

The gun I do best on sporting clays with is an Ithaca 37 featherweight 20ga with an english style straight stock. If you are used to running a pump shotgun I wouldn't see it as much of a disadvantage unless you are entering tournaments or something and need every little edge you can get.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

It seems there is some question about proper pump gun technique. as with any thing the key is practice. I would also think familiarity would play a part. I only recommend guns I have owned and used and found satisfactory.

Are you saying a Pump shotgun too slow or un reliable? But perfectly adequate to protect your home and family. I recommended it Based On Reliablity, Non sensitivity to ammo.
Same arguement I heard somewhere on fighting shotguns. Only parts I've ever had to replace on 870s or win 12s is worn extractor.

The following are some of the guns I've owned and found satisfactory. Not in order of reliability.
Browning Gold Auto, A-5oo, A-5s 12,16,20 (had to use field loads with 16)
Browning Citori Field, and Sporting Clays version.
Browning Cynergy Sporting 30" ported
Various Franchi Autos
1100,1187,1148, 1158skeet
All manner of 870s
Baikal/Remington 12, 20
Benelli Cordoba and,Supersport, Nova ,Super Nova All in 12, 1 nova 20, forgot 1 M2 12, 1 M2 20
Miroku sp? 12 gauge field, 20 ga Skeet
Mid series Charles Daly s (also Miroku)
Beretta BL-2 (2 triggers)
Mossberg 835, (I agree 930 should be great, But I haven't had 1 yet)
Winchester mod 12, 1 field, 1 Skeet

You can usually get a good deal on a used 835,backbored and ported. Guys trade them off cuz the're heavy and they want some thing lighter to shoot they're 3 1/2" shells!??

These are recommendations for shooters, trying Sporting Clays.

If your going on the Rodeo-Basspro-sporting clays-making a living with it. circuit I would have a slightly different list

 

[kingcheese]

i can bust clays all day with my remington spartan side by side

not really a normal thing to see people use for clays, but i like it just fine

 

[Red Cent]

"Are you saying a Pump shotgun too slow." Yup. Unless you want to tune the reflexes, why handicap yourself with a pump? An auto or a O/U will gain you a second or two to pick up the second shot. 'Course, less you just wanna play.

The most popular shotgun in the 3 Gun world is an 1187. Yes, there are a bunch Win Xs and Benellis and and a few more Italians. 'Course, they are gone through by experts. However, I would buy an 1187 and change O rings a little more often. After each range session, a minute of OOOO steelwool will remove the carbon buildup. Talking to some of the shooters, the biggest problem with the 1187 is lube. NO lube should be applied to the O ring travel area. Changes the gas to gummy then hard carbon deposits. My two 1187s, an 100, and an 1148 (no gas-strong springs) runs like clocks. Although that darned 1148 hurts.

 

[atblis]

Beretta 391, and that's coming from a long time 1187 shooter.

 

[PJR]

Beretta 391, and that's coming from a long time 1187 shooter.

I agree. It is the premium choice for a sporting clays auto IMO, followed very closely by the Brownings and Benellis.

 

[Ole Humpback]

If were talking a dedicated Sporting Clays gun, any Browning or Beretta O/U in 12ga is perfect for the task. Getting either maker's O/U in 12ga allows for gauge reducers, so you can effectively get 4 guns in one (12ga, 20ga, 28ga, 410) if you buy all the reducers. You can also get all sorts of stock fitting options on either so the gun is as smooth as a baby's bottom to shoot.

If were talking a gun that will see the field as well as sporting clays, a long barrel semi-auto is my personal preference. I'd either use a Sweet 16, or modern Browning semi-auto. The Belgian made Sweet 16 with a 28" barrel will almost point and shoot for you, the balance of the gun and its swing are near perfect. However; it comes at two massive trade-offs: to change chokes means you need to change barrels which means you'd need upto 6 barrels for one gun if you wanted every choke avaliable and the other problem is the recoil will be near crippling with sporting clay loads in a recoil operated action. The modern Browning semi's use gas pistons and have threaded choke tubes, so recoil is light and changing chokes takes all of a minute and $300 to buy every choke known to man for a given model, but they seem to be bulkier than the Auto-5's of old and don't "feel" as balanced or swing as good.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

I grew up shooting pumps, and I find I can pump an 870wingmaster, Model 12 Winchester, Mossberg , and I forgot Ithaca37 dont know how,pump shot gun
just as fast as I pump my 1100 or my Citori!

I realize this is a more complicated action, through years of practice, I can now pump the gun without looking at it, and from the shoulder too.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

Haven't experienced the crippling recoil with my A-5s , or model 11s, with current rings in the correct order.
however I will agree a franchi 48al will cause you to stutter.

 

[Virginian]

Name brand gas semi auto. If he likes SCs and want to move on to quality O/Us later he is welcome to all of them, and he will be much better prepared to make a good choice.

 

[Ole Humpback]

Haven't experienced the crippling recoil with my A-5s

It was more of a comparison to modern gas operated & pump shotguns. Its always felt like I'm getting kicked twice, once when you pull the trigger then a fraction of a second later I feel the barrel recoil. Then again, the A5 I shot was setup for heavy loads and I was shooting 2.75" magnum loads in it.

 

[Red Cent]

RugerMcMarlin, I have some M97s in the safe that I use for cowboy. You can slamfire those things, just nail the trigger and pump. But you cannot stroke that pump as fast AND as accurate as an auto. In cowboy, the distance is around 30-35 feet. Big difference in Sporting Clays.
I have other pump shotguns and I have used them all. Would not hand one to a novice SC shooter. Unless he has used one in the field for a long time.

Apparently the friend has field guns. I would be curious of what those are. In SC, the stock can and does, most of the time, mirror the field gun.

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

red cent I have owned 1897 Winchesters a 16 and a 12. I have hunted with them but I have never tried them on sporting clays. I have not tried CASS or 3 gun competitions if there are similar shots you would know better than me. I think there are some restrictions in what pumps you can use in CASS, due to improvements in design or something. only 3 gun related shot gun I've ever saw had a really long magazine and it involves something more than 2 shots, I would say the auto had an edge for sure.

The Beretta AL 391 I think would be OK, I have not owned or used one. I have 3 friends and a little brother that all had one, the last guy swapped it for a Browning leveraction , as far as I know it worked fine for all of them but apparently didn't form a lasting relationship. Still functioned fine.

I see how any auto loader could kick less, I really don't see how a pump or double gun of equal weight, could hold any advantage in recoil one over the other.

The only double that came close to good for field and sporting clays was a field grade Citori 12, when I used it for sporting clays I switched to it for hunting. But I still pumped it.

And to the guy with the double Baikal I have a friend that also shoots clays with one to get warmed up for dove season. Shoots it every bit as good as his Wingmaster. Now he doesn't compete, just a good ol farm boy. One of the best hands with a shotgun I've ever seen

 

[RugerMcMarlin]

VAHerder checked my 870 express collection newest one, 2 years old. Which may be why Im getting along fine.I will adjust list to expresses 2 yrs or older. Did buy the flossy Wingmaster in 20 last winter. Heard some one say it was a walnut stock, mine has beautiful grained veneer, with a little black line down the comb.
It might be walnut underneath but if they felt the need to veneer it, it must some kind of ugly. It functions perfect. Giving Remington its due new Wingmaster as smooth as my broke in wingmasters and quite a bit smoother than they were when new.On the expresses I appreciate the 2 yr hint. Your the first guy thats said that. Everybody else lumps all expresses together. Couldn't figure how I could get 4 that worked just fine. Thanks

 

[Virginian]

That stock with the black line isn't veneer, it's two solid slabs of walnut with some type of epoxy type joint. Apparently good walnut in the required thickness is getting harder to find.

 

[Whole Hog]

I shot sporting clays for several years with an 870 Wingmaster and never felt handicapped, but when I started getting serious about it I moved up to a Browning O/U. I say start with whatever you have.

Mesilla Valley Shotgun Sports holds monthly sporting clays shoots at the Butterfield range west of Las Cruces. Come out and and shoot with us, and I'll bet lots of people will let you try their guns.

 

[RickMD]

Buy yourself a clean, used Remington 1100 for about 400 bucks. Shoot the crap out of it and sell it for near what you paid for it in a couple years if you find you need something "better". The old 1100's didn't hold all those skeet records for years because the were junk...

 

[oneounceload]

Come out and and shoot with us, and I'll bet lots of people will let you try their guns.

That is the best advice - let your friend beg/borrow/rent as many guns, in all price ranges, as he can to find what ill work for him. Everyone is different, and unless you fit the demographic mold for "average", odds are any gun will need tweaking to fit properly, but he can still get a good idea what "feels" right and what fits close for starters

 

[Red Cent]

Five 97s and a 93. The only pump shotgun recognized for SASS is the 97. Some use the 1887 lever and a bunch use the double.