People have been carrying small sheath knives in their pocket with a lanyard to the belt for a very long time. I think it was first used in Northern Europe and Scandinavia.
Eskabar
- Thread starter AStone
- Start date
- Status
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Well, to be honest, I kind of doubted John thought of it himself.
The innovation is attaching the lanyard to the bottom of the sheath and then drawing the knife and sheath until the lanyard pulls the sheath off. That's been done since kydex started being used on neck knives and someone realized the same technique would work just looping the lanyard around the belt.
It also helps keep the knife oriented when the lanyard is just long enough for the knife to drop into the pocket suspended by the lanyard.
It also helps keep the knife oriented when the lanyard is just long enough for the knife to drop into the pocket suspended by the lanyard.
EnglishmanInArizona
Member
+1 on lanyards for pocket carry.
I do it a little differently. I cut a hole in the bottom of my pocket, and the knife, in sheath, goes through the hole, with the thickness of the sheath around the handle stopping it from falling right through. The lanyard is then tied through the seam of the trouser leg, inside the pocket.
It takes a little figuring out to get right, but the sheath will stay fixed to the knife until it is just outside the pocket and then be pulled off. This is a FAR shorter drawstroke than having the lanyard tied to the belt. Practically the minimal drawstroke, actually.
Doing this, I regularly conceal a 6" fixed blade with a full size handle in my dress pants. Use a very slim sheath and it vanishes. The thickness of the handle looks very similar to a cellphone.
It works beautifully. Just remember not to drop change into your knife pocket.
I do it a little differently. I cut a hole in the bottom of my pocket, and the knife, in sheath, goes through the hole, with the thickness of the sheath around the handle stopping it from falling right through. The lanyard is then tied through the seam of the trouser leg, inside the pocket.
It takes a little figuring out to get right, but the sheath will stay fixed to the knife until it is just outside the pocket and then be pulled off. This is a FAR shorter drawstroke than having the lanyard tied to the belt. Practically the minimal drawstroke, actually.
Doing this, I regularly conceal a 6" fixed blade with a full size handle in my dress pants. Use a very slim sheath and it vanishes. The thickness of the handle looks very similar to a cellphone.
It works beautifully. Just remember not to drop change into your knife pocket.
Blade First
Member
Hmmm...have to express serious reservations about tethering a CQ knife on a particularly short leash unless it's available for the ambidextrous. Just my own preference but my blade is a backup to the primary.
If my primary is compromised in some way, the chance that I'd be able to access
my backup weapon quickly and effectively with my primary hand is pretty slim.
An esKabar on my left-side belt, however, should be available for right-hand and left-hand deployment. If my primary isn't effective, I want that option.
RE: pocket pollution...concealing a pistol in a pocket demands that nothing else interfere with concealment and quick-draw capability.
I stash my blade elsewhere...and your mileage my vary.
If my primary is compromised in some way, the chance that I'd be able to access
my backup weapon
An esKabar on my left-side belt, however, should be available for right-hand and left-hand deployment. If my primary isn't effective, I want that option.
RE: pocket pollution...concealing a pistol in a pocket demands that nothing else interfere with concealment and quick-draw capability.
I stash my blade elsewhere...and your mileage my vary.
You can IWB a small sheath knife with the sheath-belt lanyard shortened for a very short draw, although if you're carrying on the belt you may as well carry with the sheath directly attached to the belt for the shortest draw.
AStone
Member
My thoughts exactly.
I've got a nice (edc) gun belt that's hungry for
a scaled EsKabar in a custom sheath.
JimStC
Member
I am going to stick with my two handed approach. If I have the BG in my strike zone I have more problems than getting my knife out of its sheath. Heck I'll pull the sheathed knife and use it as a striking tool until I can unsheath it.
Or, ask Sam to make a sheath similar to the one referenced in a previous post that is wider and with minimal retention.
Just thinking out loud.........
Jim
Or, ask Sam to make a sheath similar to the one referenced in a previous post that is wider and with minimal retention.
Just thinking out loud.........
Jim
AStone
Member
Smiles. Yup, I suspect so, John.
Jim, I hear you, and respect your choice.
It's all about what works best for each person and each tool.
There's not one way to do it; it depends so much on one's EDC needs and priorities.
Jim, I hear you, and respect your choice.
It's all about what works best for each person and each tool.
There's not one way to do it; it depends so much on one's EDC needs and priorities.
AStone
Member
Here is an image from over on Blade Forums of an EsK with Izula scales.
(It's embedded in a five page thread about the EsK that I have yet to read, but plan to.)
I think it looks superb (even though I'd opt for darker scales if I had a choice).
I also almost certainly want that handle ring left open,
- unless someone talks me out of it - which means I'll go for the Izula scales that needs some mod,
(or custom) instead of the ones that Kabar offers for it. (Is there a technical name for that hole/ring?)
By the way: what's the ... motivation, reasoning, etc behind those bright orange scales?
More orange for hunting season? Easier to see on the forest floor at dusk?
(It's embedded in a five page thread about the EsK that I have yet to read, but plan to.)
I think it looks superb (even though I'd opt for darker scales if I had a choice).
I also almost certainly want that handle ring left open,
- unless someone talks me out of it
- which means I'll go for the Izula scales that needs some mod, (or custom) instead of the ones that Kabar offers for it. (Is there a technical name for that hole/ring?)
By the way: what's the ... motivation, reasoning, etc behind those bright orange scales?
More orange for hunting season? Easier to see on the forest floor at dusk?
Last edited:
AStone
Member
Ha! You know, I almost added a third multiple choice answer to my question (about orange scales),
but couldn't find the wording quickly, so passed.
It was something like, artistic expression for an art-deco-appreciating modern consumer.
but couldn't find the wording quickly, so passed.
It was something like, artistic expression for an art-deco-appreciating modern consumer.
The simplest reason is often the correct one - Hi-viz to find when dropped.
There's no reason you couldn't drill out or shape the KaBar scale to make a wider hole than the thong hole in the poly composite scales. Much cheaper than buying the micarta and having to do the same thing anyway.
Jantz Knifemaker Supply is offering "their" take on the Izula inspired handle and has scales in various materials. I saw these at Blade and was tempted to ask about the blade materials and if the the scales fit the Izula/Eskabar, but I'm uncomfortable with "inspired/knock off" knives and didn't take the time to find out how closely the smaller pattern 44 matched the Izula. Still, they did offer blade sizes and materials different from the Izula and Eskabar (D2 anyone?) and the scales, if they fit, would be a boon to everyone with an Izula, Eskabar or their Jantz pattern 40/45 knives because of price and variety. http://www.knifemaking.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=pattern+40
As to sheaths, I'm tempted to get their sheath for $13 and heat it up and press it with the Eskabar in it to see if it could be reformed to fit it.
There's no reason you couldn't drill out or shape the KaBar scale to make a wider hole than the thong hole in the poly composite scales. Much cheaper than buying the micarta and having to do the same thing anyway.
Jantz Knifemaker Supply is offering "their" take on the Izula inspired handle and has scales in various materials. I saw these at Blade and was tempted to ask about the blade materials and if the the scales fit the Izula/Eskabar, but I'm uncomfortable with "inspired/knock off" knives and didn't take the time to find out how closely the smaller pattern 44 matched the Izula. Still, they did offer blade sizes and materials different from the Izula and Eskabar (D2 anyone?) and the scales, if they fit, would be a boon to everyone with an Izula, Eskabar or their Jantz pattern 40/45 knives because of price and variety. http://www.knifemaking.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=pattern+40
As to sheaths, I'm tempted to get their sheath for $13 and heat it up and press it with the Eskabar in it to see if it could be reformed to fit it.
Last edited:
AStone
Member
Yeah, good point.
I like the black ones anyway.
AStone
Member
This just in. It appears from the last posts that he's out of them now,
but this puts me on a search for more alternatives like this
(in addition to the ones Hso posted above).
but this puts me on a search for more alternatives like this
(in addition to the ones Hso posted above).
Nem,
Let me see if I can dig up the black poly scales from my Eskabar and I'll send them to you if you'll pay the postage. I'd rather keep the orange scales on the one I've kept anyway.
Let me see if I can dig up the black poly scales from my Eskabar and I'll send them to you if you'll pay the postage. I'd rather keep the orange scales on the one I've kept anyway.
AStone
Member
Hey, deal. Thanks.
No hurry on this. My EsK order is still at least a week or two away. (Pay check issue.)
No hurry on this. My EsK order is still at least a week or two away. (Pay check issue.)
AStone
Member
So, continuing this exploration.
I'm pretty much locked into an Eskabar due to the price
(barring an unexpected large increase in my cash flow, which is unlikely).
But in continuing to research, I finally found the Izula II.
Looks like ESEE has increased the handle length by 1/2" while keeping the blade length identical to the Izula I : 2.75".
That means the Eskabar and Izula II have pretty much the same handle length, but the Eskabar's blade is 1/2" longer.
I like the 3.25" blade on the EsK because it's more similar to what I've used for years,
but if my cash flow was better, I'd think about the Izula II.
What are the real differences in these knives? No doubt, it's context dependent.
Discuss, please.
I'm pretty much locked into an Eskabar due to the price
(barring an unexpected large increase in my cash flow, which is unlikely).
But in continuing to research, I finally found the Izula II.
Looks like ESEE has increased the handle length by 1/2" while keeping the blade length identical to the Izula I : 2.75".
That means the Eskabar and Izula II have pretty much the same handle length, but the Eskabar's blade is 1/2" longer.
I like the 3.25" blade on the EsK because it's more similar to what I've used for years,
but if my cash flow was better, I'd think about the Izula II.
What are the real differences in these knives? No doubt, it's context dependent.
Discuss, please.
Nem,
Both are 1095 steel. Both are properly ground. What's to discuss except style?
Both are 1095 steel. Both are properly ground. What's to discuss except style?
AStone
Member
Blade length and shape differences are of interest to me in that comparison.
Some may say they are trivial, but something drove ESEE to design a shorter blade with a much steeper angle to the tip. I'm sure that wasn't by accident. I understand obvious points like a blade that is 1/2" shorter will conceal more easily, and be lighter, etc.
I'm curious here to learn from knife 'experts' (said with respect; I'm sincerely just seeking to learn here) their opinions about the pros and cons of the Izula blade v the EsKabar. Why - other than what I mentioned above - would one want that shorter, differently-shaped blade? If for no other reasons, then so be it.
Remember, Hso, I'm an evolutionary biologist (in part), and we tend to ask questions about form and function, and how minor - sometimes tiny - changes in form can have huge consequences for function.
_________
Added by edit: after writing this, I checked our thread on "short sticks", and found this (interesting and relevant) analysis by you of why just a "bit longer" stick can add benefits over the shorter, more classic stick of a particular fighting style. That's what I'm looking for here: what effects result from small changes in blade shape and length?
Some may say they are trivial, but something drove ESEE to design a shorter blade with a much steeper angle to the tip. I'm sure that wasn't by accident. I understand obvious points like a blade that is 1/2" shorter will conceal more easily, and be lighter, etc.
I'm curious here to learn from knife 'experts' (said with respect; I'm sincerely just seeking to learn here) their opinions about the pros and cons of the Izula blade v the EsKabar. Why - other than what I mentioned above - would one want that shorter, differently-shaped blade? If for no other reasons, then so be it.
Remember, Hso, I'm an evolutionary biologist (in part), and we tend to ask questions about form and function, and how minor - sometimes tiny - changes in form can have huge consequences for function.
_________
Added by edit: after writing this, I checked our thread on "short sticks", and found this (interesting and relevant) analysis by you of why just a "bit longer" stick can add benefits over the shorter, more classic stick of a particular fighting style. That's what I'm looking for here: what effects result from small changes in blade shape and length?
Last edited:
If you look at the majority of Beckers they tend to have a stout tip with that short sweep to the tip. He's very focused on tough, durable designs that you can hack, cut, baton, dig into things with. They look a little "stumpy" compared to many other designs with a more sweeping profile to the tip where slicing is more the function. Ethan didn't come out with a truly "pointy" design until the BK Magnum Camp and the 15 and 17 this last year (and the 16 is still his favorite).
The Izula just incorporates a more pointed slicing design.
Talking with Ethan and Jeff Randal they approach things just a little differently, but their ideas are basically compatible for a small knife. Small handy light knives that you can carry all the time and still do the minimum needed light tasks in camp. They're buddies, even if their knife lines compete for the same dollars, because of their dedication to wilderness survival they both share. Both talked about "dirt" instead of knives when I was around them at Blade.
The Izula just incorporates a more pointed slicing design.
Talking with Ethan and Jeff Randal they approach things just a little differently, but their ideas are basically compatible for a small knife. Small handy light knives that you can carry all the time and still do the minimum needed light tasks in camp. They're buddies, even if their knife lines compete for the same dollars, because of their dedication to wilderness survival they both share. Both talked about "dirt" instead of knives when I was around them at Blade.
JimStC
Member
Now here is a necker:
http://www.knifeart.com/enyodamascu...tter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=july172012
(drool)
And another: http://www.knifeart.com/chrisreeveps.html
http://www.knifeart.com/enyodamascu...tter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=july172012
(drool)
And another: http://www.knifeart.com/chrisreeveps.html
AStone
Member
Hso: perfect. Just what I was looking for. Very helpful. Thanks.
One nagging question remains for me: why do you think that Jeff Randall (his design, right?) chose to make the Izula blade 2.75" (about) rather than 3.25"? What factors may have motivated losing that extra half inch?
It's funny - or maybe sad - that I've been into knives since I was maybe 7, when dad gave me my first little folder, and have owned folders and fixed blades constantly since then, but I've only recently begun to think seriously about knife design and learn knife anatomy by names, like "choil", "tang" and "belly".
It's fascinating stuff, and more primal than firearms.
_________
Jim, drool indeed, especially that second one. Lust at first sight for me.
One nagging question remains for me: why do you think that Jeff Randall (his design, right?) chose to make the Izula blade 2.75" (about) rather than 3.25"? What factors may have motivated losing that extra half inch?
It's funny - or maybe sad - that I've been into knives since I was maybe 7, when dad gave me my first little folder, and have owned folders and fixed blades constantly since then, but I've only recently begun to think seriously about knife design and learn knife anatomy by names, like "choil", "tang" and "belly".
It's fascinating stuff, and more primal than firearms.
_________
Jim, drool indeed, especially that second one. Lust at first sight for me.
lobo9er
Member
http://myworld.ebay.com/kbknives/
KB knives AWESOME Sheath maker. Fair price. I didn't read through thread but I'm guessing fair amount of talk about the sheath. The sheath that came with mine dulled the edge if it came into contact. Glass filled nylon plastic sheath, why? If you anyone here knows anyone at kabar or knows ethan becker ask him or them for me.
For the cost of it and a new sheath its still a good value knife.
KB knives AWESOME Sheath maker. Fair price. I didn't read through thread but I'm guessing fair amount of talk about the sheath. The sheath that came with mine dulled the edge if it came into contact. Glass filled nylon plastic sheath, why? If you anyone here knows anyone at kabar or knows ethan becker ask him or them for me.
For the cost of it and a new sheath its still a good value knife.
- Status
