Eskabar

[JimStC]

lobo,
Regarding sheaths, see this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=667099

Another good sheath maker

Jim

 

[hso]

why do you think that Jeff Randall (his design, right?) chose to make the Izula blade 2.75" (about) rather than 3.25"? What factors may have motivated losing that extra half inch?

I don't understand.

It didn't start out as a 3.25" knife and then was whittled down. The Izula was designed to be as small as he thought was practical for the application. If you think about the function you don't need as much blade length as the design philosophy that Ethan uses.

Remember that the Eskabar is the marriage of the Izula handle with the BK11 blade to produce what some people thought was the ideal necker, but plenty of people think that the Izula is the ideal necker as do others about other knives (the Reeve for one, or our Breeds or our Wheelers).

That make sense?

 

[AStone]

Yep it does make sense, and yes you did understand my question, at least intuitively. At least you answered it.

I know that Izula didn't start off as a 3.25" that was whittled down, but purposefully designed as a short blade. I'm just curious about what drives the designers to make this choice or that.

Of course, we'll never know for sure, because we're not them, but it's fun and sometimes informative to think about it ... speaking for myself, at least.

"...designed to be as small as he thought was practical for the application. If you think about the function you don't need as much blade length..." captures the essence for me.

It's interesting that originally, when I was first exposed to 'neck knives' (probably on this board), I thought of them as overwhelmingly SD knives, which I suppose historically they were. (Right? Or no?) And for that kind of CQC application, a 2.5" blade makes sense.

But it seems they have evolved a bit now, and are taking on elements of "EDC" and even "survival knife", so thinking about how that influences blade length and shape is intriguing. Again, it's the evolutionist in me thinking about 'optimal design' and function. (At least in human-designed things; in evolution, natural selection is a tinker, not an architect.)

Example: I found a video last night (can't find it again right now) of a test of how sharp an Izula will remain after whittling a 4x4" into three pieces (conclusion: hair shaving). Who'd a thought of a neck knife taking on such a task? Yes, yes, I know, it's an extreme situation to make a point about blade sharpness. Still, it shows what can be done with a neck knife.

 

[hso]

which I suppose historically they were. (Right? Or no?)

Nope

You find plenty of small knives carried around the neck at rendezvous. Cody Lundin carries a simple red mora around his neck. Lots of small stuff, including knives carried that way.

The first neck knife I remember seeing was over 20 years ago at a show. It was a small deer antler handled hand forged primitive blade of about 2" length in a brain tanned beaded hide sheath hanging around the neck of the guy who eventually made a couple of pair of moccasins for me. He was an arthritic old smith that taught native skills and made blades in a style similar to 200 years ago using a charcoal forge and hand files/stones. Being comparatively young and dumb I thought the little knife around his neck was a silly little ornamental piece, but I watched him pull it and use it dozens of times during that 3 day knife show and it dawned on me that it was a remarkably handy piece of equipment. He used it to spread peanut butter, spear pickles, carve cardboard for foot patterns, cut leather and cord, start holes for lacing and a gazillion different uses. He wasn't going to cut a tree down with it, but he didn't need to. It looked a lot like this.


This little knife from Granfors Bruks is as common a blacksmith's little neck knife as about exists. It serves as a steel spark striker with a piece of flint. The style is about as old as blacksmithing and would be as expected around the neck of a Viking as a Buckskinner.


The weapon aspect was a late comer to the genre since small knives like these weren't looked at as much as weapons.

 

[AStone]

Very interesting. Thanks much for the history lesson. Fascinating stuff.

 

[hso]

I get a kick out of the fact that you can buy that knife at Grandfors Bruks or just about any bushcraft or rendezvous or from any smith today and that it dates from hundreds of years ago.

 

[JimStC]

Back in post #33 I said the I was going to stick with my two handed sheathed fixed blade pocket draw. Well I came up with a variation. Have the knife in my left pocket with the sheath pointing up. Pull the knife by the sheath and present it to the right hand with the handle. Right hand has the unsheathed knife and the left hand has a blocking, striking tool, albeit a small one.
I can do this very quickly and during the draw my right hand is free until it is armed with the knife.....

Jim

 

[AStone]

Jim, may I suggest one more small modification to your new system?

Attach a short (2") paracord lanyard to the bottom of the sheath, and let the lanyard protrude slightly from your pocket. (Won't work well with dress pants, but with casuals, work pants and jeans, it fits.)

Then your left hand has only to grasp lanyard and pull. With practice, you can easily figure how to grasp the lanyward in a way that upon pulling up, the lanyard winds up automatically into your grip.

I say this because I use a short lanyard with my kubotan, which rides in a lower pocket, lanyard out, so that when I'm walking, my hand is at the same height as the lanyard; my hand actually brushes against it, and partially hides it if desirable, just by it's position; no contortions or unnatural positioning necessary. Since my trousers are always work variety, the lanyard is always in exactly the same place. My fingers often automatically, almost unconsciously subtlety "feel for" the lanyard when I'm walking, standing or talking with someone, but the lanyard is so unobtrusive they never notice; it looks like I'm fiddling with a strap on the trousers, which is sown on.

From there, I can have it out and in reverse hammer grip in less than half a sec, because the way that I grasp the lanyard means that when I pull up, the kutotan flips automatically into my palm and fingers close around it.

I'll bet you could work out something similar with your sheath.

 

[JimStC]

Nem,
Tried the single piece but my pockets are too big as I wear cargo shorts this time of year. Guess I can just use a longer piece. I did like the idea so I took an 8" piece of paracord and created a loop at the bottom of the sheath. When I reach into my pocket my fingers, not thumb, go into the loop and makes for a secure grip. When I pull it from the pocket it is now a secure striking tool after the right hand has drawn the blade.
I'll keep working on this. Thanks for the suggestion.

Jim

 

[AStone]

I'm doing research on a new sharpening system that will also work well for the EsKabar (when I get one), and leaning strongly towards one that involves ceramic rods inserted "vertically" into a base with fixed angles instead of a bench stone like I've always used (with very mixed results). (The one I'm favoring is not a Spyderco Sharpmaker, but similar. I'll address this in another thread.)

Question: does anyone know the angles on an EsK blade? I'm guessing 25 deg (50) since I understand that's common for utility and 'bushcraft' blades, but curious if anyone knows.

 

[hso]

There's a report of 15 degrees.

Ethan says that he has no idea, but there's a lady on the shop floor at KaBar that probably sharpens 100,000 knives a year on a 4-in belt grinder without a platen. The belt is very tight and looks flat. He guesses that only she really knows (and that may change from day to day during a month or even during the day depending upon how she feels).

 

[AStone]

Well, if so, then there goes my first - and inexpensive - choice for a sharpening system with fixed angles; lowest is 20.

 

[hso]

I've never liked vertical rod sharpeners.

A simple croc stix system like the Sharpmaker or the Gatco or ... with a couple of bevel settings works wonders.

 

[AStone]

Maybe "vertical" isn't an accurate descriptor.

This poor man's Sharpmaker - a Lansky Turn Box - is what I had in mind,
but the angles are 20 and 25. Get's solid reviews given it's sub-$20 price.

Guess I could find someone with a bench press and have some 15's drilled into the base.

Or just reset the edge angle on the EsK. Isn't 15 really low angle for a utility blade, even if it is a necker?
_____

OK, after more reading on the forum, I see "V-stick" is the appropriate descriptor for what I want.

By "vertical", I was trying to indicate that the stone was not horizontal, like a bench stone.

 

[hso]

There is a vertical ceramic offered by CRKT.

Yep that's a classic "V" stick setup. There are various versions. I like the Gatco better than the Lansky and the Spyderco as well as any.

 

[AStone]

Which Gatco? (As in model number or specific name.)

I'm asking that because I've been to the Gatco site, but don't see a V-stick set up.
Closest thing I see there is their Tri-Seps, but it's handheld.
(Their site is set up poorly to find items using images.)

 

[JimStC]

A couple of neckers showed up in the mail today. Chris Reeve Professional Soldier and a Spartan Blades Enyo:

MAKER: Chris Reeve Knives
BLADE SIZE: 3.375"
TOTAL SIZE: 7.25"
BLADE MATERIAL: CPM S35VN Steel with KG Gunkote
HANDLE: Cutaway Frame - shackle wrench capable
SHEATH: Kydex Sheath System for MOLLE Vest or Cargo Pocket
WEIGHT: 3.0 oz.
COMMENTS: This is a model that was solely developed for the Professional Soldier community for active and retired Special Forces soldiers. The Chris Reeve Professional Soldier knife is a secondary vest knife that is used for discreet, readily available, and the handle doubles a wrench tool. The knife is made entirely from American S35VN steel. A slim kydex sheath is perfect for a vest, load bearing harness or neck carry. The lanyard is threaded to muffle the sound of the knife being laid flat on a hard surface.

MAKER: Spartan Blades
DESIGNER: Curtis Iovito and Mark Carey
BLADE SIZE: 2.6875"
BLADE THICKNESS: .1875"
TOTAL SIZE: 6.25"
BLADE MATERIAL: Stainless CPM S35VN Steel -SpartaCoat, DLC Diamond Like Coating (Flat Black)
SHEATH: Black Kydex Sheath with neck chain and IWB (Inside Waist Band) loop. The sheath is Blade-tech hardware ready.
WEIGHT: 2.8 oz.
FEATURES: On smaller tactical knives, the small details make all of the difference. The Enyo gets it right for daily carry; it has filed groves on the handle for positive traction and the ergonomics that make it comfortable to use. The Spartan Enyo is equipped with a multi carry sheath system - neck chain, belt loop and is fully compatible with the Blade-tech system. The knife is coated with a physical vapor deposition process of tungsten carbide DLC which Spartan Blades calls is Flat Black SpartaCoat. The Enyo design features a filed thumb ramp on the top of the blade and index finger guard on the handle. The coating keeps the RC 58-59 Crucible S30V stainless steel both protected and non-reflective. The name of this knife, Enyo, is the companion to the god of war, Ares, in Greek mythology. The knife package is complete with a para-cord lanyard with Spartan helmet bead and a lifetime warranty.

BTW John, I am leaving tomorrow for a fishing trip to MI........

 

[AStone]

Now, Jim, you know that without pictures, it didn't happen.

But since you're leaving for a fishing trip, here, I'll help.

Chris Reeves Prof Soldier. Wow, that's a beauty. I'll have to increase my cash flow a lot before I can afford one though.

Spartan Enyo. Nice, and interesting shape. I think I like the PS more.

Good also to find the source of this one. I still want one of those eventually.

But great to get those links to those sites. Gives me something else to lust for.

I'm sure I'll be happy with my EsK, but it's great to see what else is out there for comparison, especially in that upper eschalon.

 

[JimStC]

Nem, I like the PS better too, but Wanda, my wife votes for the Spartan. I offered it to her for EDC but she told me she is sticking with her small Ka Bar with a stacked leather handle. That is one sharp little knife.
Wow, I Like that other Spartan!! Thanks a lot, Nem......
Jim

 

[AStone]

The CBQT (Tool) is a dagger, so not legal to carry anywhere in the US, I think. But it's a fascinating design, especially for a kubotan student like me. I'd use, at least hold it, it much like my kubo. Different kinds of thrusts, though.

But it's a different - even if overlapping - niche than the EsK. Originally, I was looking for something more like the CBQT, but over time, as I read more about necker designs, styles, uses, etc, I came to realize that for me, the EsK is closer to what I need (even though I'd prefer that Reeves PS) in terms of EDC that in a pinch can serve SD needs.

 

[JimStC]

Nem, are you suggesting that my Randall Model 2 is not legal to carry?

Go here. It is "F" https://www.randallknives.com/catalog.php?action=modeldetail&id=30

On my way to MI tomorrow, no fixed blades are legal unless I am going hunting.
Go figure....

Jim

 

[hso]

dagger, so not legal to carry anywhere in the US, I think.

If "anywhere" was changed to "everywhere" you'd be correct. Daggers are not federally regulated for carry and various states don't have a problem with them while others do.

 

[JimStC]

In Indiana, the only illegal weapons are throwing stars and autos.

Jim

 

[AStone]

Interesting!

I just rechecked Maine knife laws. Indeed, a close read suggests that dagger is not illegal to open carry, just not concealed.

I'd want to speak with a state trooper and a city cop about that first though.

Still, I think an officer would be more likely to smile favorably on an EsK on my belt than a CQBT.

 

[hso]

I'd want to speak with a state trooper and a city cop about that first though.

That might be a waste of time. Interpretation of the law is the realm of the Lawyer, not the LEO.