Everyone! 223 is not the same as 5.56!

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robone111

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We all need to clear this up!!! Lets get some feedback senior members!!! .223 is a lower pressure sporting round. The 5.56 is higher pressure nato round to meet Nato's penetration requirements! SAAMI is extremely against the use of a 5.56 round in a 223 stamped rifle, and vise versa folks firing 223 out of 5.56 will experience inacurate fire, and knucklepucking rounds in most rifles!! There are only a small amount of exceptions in rifle manufacturers!!

***223 AND 5.56 ARE NOT THE SAME ROUND EVEN THOUGH ALMOST EVERY BUSINESS OUT THERE MISINFORMS THEIR CUSTOMERS AND PUTS THE ROUNDS IN THE SAME CATEGORY. SOME BUSINESSES WILL EVEN STATE IN THEIR ADS IT IS THE SAME. I ASSURE YOU IT IS NOT!!***
 
i was in cabelas the other day talking to a sales associate about this actually. He wouldn't believe me for a second that the 5.56 was a hotter round then a .223. He'd have me believe that they were exactly the same round just one measured in inches and one in mm.....
i walked away at that point, no need to repeat myself

-kirk
 
As a guy who works at one of the major outfits. Its all about sales with most of these folks. they could care less if you wreck your weapon or get hurt. Good for you kirklandkie!!
 
this has been discussed for years and there are still those who are not convinced.
 
.223 in a 5.56 stamped barrel is a go
5.56 in a .223 stamped barrel no go
7.62x51 in .308 stamped barrel is go
.308 in 7.62x51 stamped barrel no go
 
Okay,7.62X51 is a lighter round than 308,but 5.56 is a hotter round than 223?It seems inconsistent that in one caliber the metric is hotter,in the other caliber it is not...Do I read that right?
 
I assumed everyone knew this already who owned one...

According to the official C.I.P. (Commission Internationale Permanente Pour L'Epreuve Des Armes A Feu Portative) guidelines the .223 Remington case can handle up to 430 MPa (62,367 psi) piezo pressure. In C.I.P. regulated countries every rifle cartridge combo has to be proofed at 125% of this maximum C.I.P. pressure to certify for sale to consumers. This is equal to the NATO maximum service pressure guideline for the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge.

The SAAMI pressure limit for the .223 Remington is set at 379.212 MPa (55,000 psi), piezo pressure.

5.56 NATO = Maximum pressure 430.00 MPa (62,366 psi)
 
The majority of .223/5.56 civilian guns do have 5.56x45 chambers, so you can use either flavor in those guns. .223 works great in a 5.56 chamber; it's only when you try to run 5.56 out of a tight-throated .223 chamber that you may have issues.

Why would premium civilian .223 be less accurate in 5.56x45mm those guns than NATO spec 5.56x45mm? Reducing pressures slightly from max usually improves accuracy, the pressure difference is not that great, and good civilian ammo is usually more consistent than most military contract FMJ.

Ruger mini-14's are stamped .223 Remington, but the manual says the chamber is 5.56x45mm NATO spec and is designed to work fine with either.
 
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I assure you DHJenkins...this is not a joke. There are an unbeilievable amount of folks out there who do not get it.
 
While some firearms manufacturers intentionally stamp .223 on a 5.56-capable firearm as a way of avoiding the unwanted attention from using a "military" round, 5.56 in a .223-labeled barrel is a very bad idea unless you've already confirmed that it is designed for it. Even if the chamber is capable of handling the pressure, the 5.56 round is designed with a longer throat in mind, and using it in a .223 chamber will result in erosion and eventual loss of accuracy. For example, a Saiga .223 can easily eat 5.56, but you won't see me feeding it to my gun unless it's an emergency because I value its accuracy as a hunting rifle.
 
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Really, take a deep breath.

Hasn't been my experience to notice a whit of difference between 5.56 and 223 in any of my rifles. Both semi-auto and bolt guns function fine with either ammo and velocities are about the same with similar bullets weights. Military brass tends to be a tad thicker so operating pressure may be smidge higher and the shoulder may be forward a bit to allow for some crush in machine guns that are hard on cases.

If there is any difference I haven't seen it.
 
I deal directly with most ammo manufacturers and have been explained by their engineers that there will be accuracy issues, so if what your saying is true...we have a serious industry problem going on. either that or i have unluckily gotten every unknowledgable person i have ever spoken with in the past 2 years.
 
I assure you DHJenkins...this is not a joke. There are an unbeilievable amount of folks out there who do not get it.

I shot a few hundred rounds last weekend with my 2 buddies (who are army enthusiasts (not mall ninjas LOL)) who had NO IDEA WHAT +P was!

One had reloaded in the past, but he used the term "fast burn fine powder, and slowburn course powder". I guess things change eh? ;)
 
You're kidding. Everyone knows +P stands for "plus pellets". They're just a step down from the super-annihalating instant death DRT bullets.

I swear, the ignorance of some people...:D
 
My 5.56 NATO stamped AR is more accurate in general with cheap .223 ball than cheap 5.56 ball. Could just be my gun but it is a trend I have noticed. SAAMI says nothing about incompatability between a .308 chamber and 7.62x51 rounds, they are interchangeable as I understand it.
 
7.62x51 in .308 stamped barrel is go
.308 in 7.62x51 stamped barrel no go

Ummm, what about .308 in a FN FAL? I'm no expert, but I believe that most FAL barrels would be marked 7.62x51. I've only had two, so now I'm a little confused. But pretty sure there have been a few million .308 rounds put through battle rifles, be it FAL, G3, or M1A.
 
DHJenkins. You should take a caliper to the neck down portion of a 223 and a 5.56. Also notice the difference in angle at those points.
 
I'd like to build on what Old Fred has stated.

According to my Cartridges of the World, SAAMI did not recognize the difference between 223 and 5.56 until (okay, now my copy is hiding from me...but sometime it the late 70s, and as the 223/5.56 was invented in 1964...that's more than a 10 year gap when they WERE the same)

so for quite some time 223 WAS the same as 5.56, they were two different names for the same thing, just like 45 auto and 45 acp.

Now, eventually the army switched from M193 to M855, with a heavier bullet and the military started asking for slightly different chambers.

So I think it is more along the lines of .223 remington is the same as OLD 5.56 and different from NEW 5.56.

I will also note that SAAMI frequently pussyfoots around and plays it extra extra safe in pressures. I think they have a vested interest in asking for older catridges to be loaded softer so that whatever new whizbang they are each individually making looks better compared to the old standard.

Remember, SAAMI is NOT government, it is simply a group of ammo makers who agree to follow a certain set of self-chosen guidelines. They look out for their own best interests. This includes making the new wonder 7mm short case look better than the tried and true 7x57mauser, etc.

Also remember, the US military uses 9x19mm pistol ammo that is above SAAMI pressure guidelines. I don't think anyone is going to try and say 9x19 'civilian' is different than 9x19 'US Military' even though other countries do load special 9x19mm ammo with even higher pressure yet for SMGs.

EVERY gun that rolls off the assembly line marked 223 is going to be able to handle European Loaded 223, and again as Old Fred stated, the European SAAMI views these rounds as the same, and allows 223 to be loaded a tad over 62,000 PSI.



I will point out for handloaders it is important to realize military 5.56 brass is much thicker, so you actually have less case capacity. If you don't realize this you could accidentally overload the case.
 
just want to be clear that my debate is with 223 vs. 5.56. No claims and the folks i deal with do not have issues with 7.62 vs 308. Except the occasional shooter with an accurized rifle who is picky for competition, rightly so.
 
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