Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Ahhh, beat me to it! I was going to say anyone who breaks 0.1 in my matches gets an automatic DQ for malfunctioning equipment!
Experts - how fast can you shoot accurate follow-up shots?
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Ahhh, beat me to it! I was going to say anyone who breaks 0.1 in my matches gets an automatic DQ for malfunctioning equipment!
David E
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It was actually on purpose. I had a bad run up to that point and was just trying to make up for lost time. I knew it was fast, so asked them to review the shots. The interesting part to me was, both hits were on target. That meant I was back on target in that .08 time frame. So why do I miss when I shoot slower?
I've never had a .09, but I've had a handful of .10's on up. Obviously, the slower, the more I've had.
You'd have to DQ Taran Butler every match. He's got one of the fastest trigger fingers around.
I've never had a .09, but I've had a handful of .10's on up. Obviously, the slower, the more I've had.
You'd have to DQ Taran Butler every match. He's got one of the fastest trigger fingers around.
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I've seen a couple different shooters in IDPA make a Colt .38 super sound like a machinegun it was so fast, but in a very controlled manner.
ny32182
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There is no one on planet Earth that is going to be doing consistent intentional .08 splits... Taran Butler or anyone else.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
.08 splits sometimes "happen".
But someone who can perform it on demand . . . I'd have a tough time believing it. I'm not from Missouri, but you would have to show me.
But someone who can perform it on demand . . . I'd have a tough time believing it. I'm not from Missouri, but you would have to show me.
Sam1911
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That's 750 rds. per minute, for those keeping track. 
David E
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On my case, I made clear I did it ONCE.
Could I do it again while firing a gun the way it should be fired? Sure.....eventually, but not on demand.
Taran (and others) typically shoot in the .12 range, often below. I never said he could do a .08 on demand.
Could I do it again while firing a gun the way it should be fired? Sure.....eventually, but not on demand.
Taran (and others) typically shoot in the .12 range, often below. I never said he could do a .08 on demand.
ny32182
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I've watched more than one national champ, and a few not far outside that level, and none of them have even come close to a .12 split when I've been watching.
In cold weather, cold Colt 1911/.38Super and cold hand; 4 shots between .16 to .21 seconds. Carry loads are N105/125gr XTPs ~1491fps.
I haven't timed warm weather shots or with both hands.
My practice head shots are on moving rattlesnakes.
I haven't timed warm weather shots or with both hands.
My practice head shots are on moving rattlesnakes.
David E
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Um, ok. But I have.
BullfrogKen
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Splits like that are certainly achievable. I've done sub-.20 splits in training classes often. They were deliberate, as in "time me, let's see how fast I can do this drill".
Personally . . . this is for me . . if I post .18 splits on targets in competition for score that's a really good day.
Really good.
I don't pay so much attention to my splits as my ability to move off the force on a good stage. I use my local IDPA matches as an opportunity to test my skills against my own personal skill level as a competitor.
If someone does better than me, I'm OK with it. I'm not looking to beat everyone else.
I'm looking to place at a certain level that I personally determine is adequate.
Personally . . . this is for me . . if I post .18 splits on targets in competition for score that's a really good day.
Really good.
I don't pay so much attention to my splits as my ability to move off the force on a good stage. I use my local IDPA matches as an opportunity to test my skills against my own personal skill level as a competitor.
If someone does better than me, I'm OK with it. I'm not looking to beat everyone else.
I'm looking to place at a certain level that I personally determine is adequate.
ny32182
Member
Let's see the video.
In the not-insignificant amount of time I've spent timing Vogel now, he bottoms out at about .18, which is a very long way from .12. There is a reason for that.
In the not-insignificant amount of time I've spent timing Vogel now, he bottoms out at about .18, which is a very long way from .12. There is a reason for that.
David E
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Yeah, the reason is, he shoots a Glock!
Taran is widely known for his fast trigger finger. If this is news, then you need to go more matches.
Rob Leatham tops out at about .14, but he acknowledges there are people faster on the trigger than he.
Search YouTube for "Fast Bill Drill." The first one up (for my search) submitted by Parashooter40, shows a shooter drawing and firing six shots on target in 1.11. For the record, I know and shoot with both these guys.
These videos are not hard to find.
Taran is widely known for his fast trigger finger. If this is news, then you need to go more matches.
Rob Leatham tops out at about .14, but he acknowledges there are people faster on the trigger than he.
Search YouTube for "Fast Bill Drill." The first one up (for my search) submitted by Parashooter40, shows a shooter drawing and firing six shots on target in 1.11. For the record, I know and shoot with both these guys.
These videos are not hard to find.
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ny32182
Member
I can pull the stock trigger on my Glock faster than .18, and I'm sure Vogel can too. That doesn't make it a good idea.
David E
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First you say he "bottoms out at .18, a far cry from .12," but now you're sure he can pull it faster than that...(just like you).......so which is it?
ny32182
Member
Sorry, I thought the thread was about "how fast can you shoot accurate follow-up shots". There is something about that in the title.
ny32182
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Lets see the .12 and below. 7yd Bill drill, production rig.
Hangingrock
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I believe with a M-14 on full auto I came close in decades past at ITR.
David E
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Dude, make up your mind. When I catch you in your own words and you have no rebuttal, you refer to the thread title instead.
I never said the .12 splits and under were fired by production guns. You cited a Glock as bottoming out at .18 in the hands of a National Champion, but then said that even you can shoot your Glock faster than that.
You asked for a video that shows such splits, I provided one, but it doesn't count because of his holster?
ny32182
Member
David, the whole thread is about "accurate" followup shots, with stock type guns, as presented by the OP.
Your video (missed your edit the first time) shows some impressive speedy trigger pulling, but only about 2 of those shots would be hits in a Bill drill from the looks of it.
I have personally occassionally recorded splits of .12-.15 with my own Glock, but that isn't the kind of thing I'm talking about since it doesn't produce consistently repeatable, reliable zeros, and I think we both know it. Have a good one.
Your video (missed your edit the first time) shows some impressive speedy trigger pulling, but only about 2 of those shots would be hits in a Bill drill from the looks of it.
I have personally occassionally recorded splits of .12-.15 with my own Glock, but that isn't the kind of thing I'm talking about since it doesn't produce consistently repeatable, reliable zeros, and I think we both know it. Have a good one.
Who was the guy in the TV show back in the 80's, who is a real shooter? (was it Brian enos?)
There is a youtube clip of him drawing and shooting multiple shots, and then placing the weapon on the dead man's chest and walks away.
That might help out to visually show what these guys can do
edit David E got it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMFM8SeW51E
There is a youtube clip of him drawing and shooting multiple shots, and then placing the weapon on the dead man's chest and walks away.
That might help out to visually show what these guys can do
edit David E got it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMFM8SeW51E
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David E
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ny, apparently I nailed what the OP was after in Post #11, since he said "that's exactly what I was looking for" in Post #12
Everything else is about what is possible regarding splits.
You won't find too many, if any, .12 splits in IDPA, due to the scoring structure. But they are found with regularity in USPSA.
Ankeny won't tell you, but he is a Grandmaster in USPSA and as he said, his observations reflect my own.
Now, let's all go to the range and practice our splits!
Everything else is about what is possible regarding splits.
You won't find too many, if any, .12 splits in IDPA, due to the scoring structure. But they are found with regularity in USPSA.
Ankeny won't tell you, but he is a Grandmaster in USPSA and as he said, his observations reflect my own.
Now, let's all go to the range and practice our splits!
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