Explain this to me...

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BP Hunter

BP Hunter

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I recently purchased a brand new RIA 1911 Govt model in 9mm.

I cleaned the gun before I shot it. I tried the magazine and cycled by hand all the 9 rounds of 9mm. They all ejected with force with the PMC 115gr and reloads of 125gr with 5.7gr of Unique. I then tried shooting the PMC, but 19 out of 20 had FTE. The empty casing just sat at the mouth of the chamber. But when racked the slide to release the empty casing, it flew out with authority. I also made sure that I did not limp wrist. I then tried my reloads (125gn ). All of 30 fired and cycled completely throwing the empty casing 5 feet behind me on the right. THe extractor looked solid and seemed to function well.

Why did the 115gr cycle when I racked them out of the chamber but failed to when fired?

My Glock 19 and CZ 7B had no issues with the PMC 115gr ammo.

Confused...:(
 
Did your gun reliably eject the 124 grain reloads?

Something to remember is that the G19 and CZ were designed as 9mm guns.
The 1911 was designed as a .45.
The farther you deviate from John Browning's original design, the more likely you are to have issues.

Also, your RIA may need more shooting to break it in.
 
Sounds like your reloads have a little more ummph than the factory 115's. If you're like me you'll never be shooting factory much anyway so don't worry.

You can try another brand for 115's and some factory 124's, but IMHO if your reloads cycled good who cares. Some guns just don't like some ammo...and it could still be in the "break in" stage also.
 
Try some Cor Bon 115 +P or some other brand of +P.
The PMCs may be very mild.
 
Full-size 9mm 1911s tend to be picky with a lot of 115 grain factory ammo using factory mags. I have a Springfield Loaded 1911 9mm and the factory mags that originally came with it caused the same FTE problem you're having with 115 grain ammo. A friend with a 9mm STI Trojan let me borrow two of the Wilson Elite Tactical Mags (ETMs) he used and the FTE problem disappeared. Using the ETMs I shoot 115 grain factory ammo including PMCs through this Springer with no problems. And this gun is an absolute tack driver with Federal American Eagle FMJ 147 grain ammo
 
Whatever you do, don't go modding the gun until you have at least 500 rounds through it. Try some other mags first, but resist the urge to tweak for the time being.
 
Several years ago I bought a new Taurus 1911 in 9mm and it came from the factory with a 16# recoil spring - which is the stock spring for 45 ACP. Of course it didn't function well at all until I went down to a 12# spring...
 
From their web page

At Armscor, we are dedicated to providing our loyal customers with the best customer care for all Armscor USA ammunition and Rock Island Armory firearms. If you have issues, don't worry! Our products come with a lifetime warranty. Please utilize the resources in the support section online and if you cannot find the information you need, please contact us directly:

General Questions / Inquiries: 1 (775) 537-1444
Product Specific Questions: 1 (775) 537-1444 ask for a gunsmith
Click to expand...


https://us.armscor.com/support-center/contact-support/
 
Thanks for all yopur responses. I will continue shooting it maybe till after 500 rounds before I call customer service.
 
I'm NOT SAYING that the two suggested possible culprits -- bad mags or a too-heavy recoil spring -- aren't the right "suspects" -- but I'd like to understand how those two things could cause extraction issues.

A too-strong recoil spring (or a sub-par, weak round) should keep the gun from cycling properly, but should NOT leave an empty casing in the chamber. An empty in the chamber sounds like an extractor problem or crappy ammo with out-of-spec rims that won't let the extractor get a good grasp. This was a problem for some guns, some years back, when using Winchester White Box. Look at that PMC ammo again... and compare those cases to the rounds that worked as they should.

The OP wrote:
The empty casing just sat at the mouth of the chamber. But when racked the slide to release the empty casing, it flew out with authority.
Click to expand...
I don't understand how the problem presented itself.
I then tried shooting the PMC, but 19 out of 20 had FTE.
Click to expand...
Was the OP chambering one round at a time? Did the slide lock back after the shot?

If the OP started with a full mag and the first round fired properly, and the extractor didn't pull it out, there should have been a jam -- an empty in chamber and round being fed -- or a round not properly extracted (because the slide didn't go back far enough.) That wasn't mentioned, and if the round partially extracted, it shouldn't have remained chambered or disposed so that it could be properly extracted by racking the slide.

Some information seems to be missing.
 
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Don't overthink it...most stovepipe problems are simply ammo problems...
about 5% are gun problems...so start checking the ammo first,
then do the standard burr tests on the weapon; slide, rails, chamber,
then check for the extractor & ejector properly in position...
then the springs...check for kinks & whatnot...

Good Luck!!
 
Break in the pistol with rounds it'll fire. Keep it lightly lubed--no grease. This will smooth the friction surfaces and lead to freer/faster slide cycling. After it's all seated in, try your other ammo again.
 
Hello BP, I've not owned an RIA 9MM 1911 but have owned and operated Colts, Kimbers, Springfield, STI and Dan Wesson 9MM 1911s. I have found that the more lightly loaded factory and handloaded ammo ejects pretty weakly from most of the full sized 1911 type guns. Since the 1911 type guns were designed for a cartridge with a much more robust recoil impulse, they have slides ounces heavier than most 9MM guns. The lighter factory recoil springs installed in the 1911 type 9MM guns aid in reliable function. Manufacturers differ in what they install, but my Dan Wesson and STI both came with 10# recoil springs, and both were reliable with any factory ammo I have used. I run slightly heavier recoil springs in my 9MM guns because I do use some of the more energetic 9MM ammo. With any recoil spring weight I have tried in the full sized 9MM 1911s, to include 10#,12#,14# and 16#, the Winchester and IMI 124 grain NATO 9MM has functioned 100%. I have chronographed a fair amount of this ammo over the years, and it does have a bit more "Umph" than most standard U.S. commercial ammo. There may be other issues of course, just as Walt Sherrill mentions, but since your gun functions properly with your reloads, I'd have a look at the simplest things, ammo used vs. recoil spring weight, first.

BTW, if your magazines successfully feed the round into the chamber, they have done their job. I have used various manufacturer's 9MM magazines, and while I do have a favorite, they all work in any of my 9MM 1911s. With a gun that is functioning properly, the fired case should extract and eject with whatever magazine is in the gun, or no magazine at all....
 
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A .45 1911 is correct if it shoots US Army hardball ammunition. Anything else, unless specifically guaranteed by the gun or ammunition manufacturer, is just luck.

Likewise, unless RIA claims their 9mm will shoot something else, 9x19 STANAG 4090 would be the correct ammunition.
 
.
I think the 115's were a lil mild (as someone has already noted) and the new gun's action still is a little tight.

Try the same problem loads after you've run 500 rounds of happy ammo through it.
 
I was using a full magazine of 9 rounds. With the PMC 115gr, it failed to extract the empty casing from the mouth of the chamber and was followed by the slide held back by the next round jammed by the empty casing. I removed the the magazine and let the slide sling shot closed and successfully extracted the empty casing by racking the slide. BUt with the reloads of 125gr, the casing was ejected 5 feet behind my right side.
 
That explains things better. Thanks for the clarification.

While it sounds like an extractor-related problem, it could be anemic ammo and a slide not being driven with sufficient force/speed (because of the heavy recoil spring.) Or a weird extractor rim on the base of the ammo -- particularly since it happens only with your PMC. You probably have some of the PMC; compare the base of the cartridge to the ammo that extracted properly, and see if you can tell a noticeable difference... And of course, try a lighter recoil spring.

Warning: letting the slide slam shut like that can damage the extractor on most 1911s, so it's not something you should do frequently. Some other guns are designed to allow this action; I think it was one of the requirements for the US military, when the Beretta was chosen. With most 1911s (or close variants) the extractor isn't intended to slip over the rim; it is designed to have the case's rim slip UNDER the extractor as it's pushed up from the magazine.

.
 
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The M1911 is a RECOIL operated gun. You're obviously not getting enough recoil to operate it with the lighter bullets.

I concur with the statement that the M1911 was designed for the .45 ACP and works best with that cartridge.
 
I was doing further research where other 1911 9mm owners had a similar problem. The extractor was not holding the rim of the 9mm PMC casing well enough to extract it. I checked the tightness/looseness of both the PMC and reloaded bullets. The PMC rim was thinner than the reloads and was loose on the disasembled slide where it would not stick while the thicker rim of my reloads held just fine. I removed the extractor and bent it inwards minimally as recommended by other owners. The extractor now seems to hold the PMC bullet casing better. I won't be able to test the gun till Saturday.
 
"... they have slides ounces heavier than most 9MM guns."

That is often part if not all, of the problem.

Jim
 
You answered your own question in the very first post.

Your reloads operate the pistol correctly. The PMC rounds do not.

I don't know about you, but I handload a box of 50 rounds for about $6. Why would I pay $10-12 per box for ammo that does not work correctly when I can load ammo that works great for half price?

And why do you? :)
 
I want all my guns to shoot any ammo reliably be it factory or reloads. I don't want them to be choosy. Reliability is a must.
 
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