Explosive situation..what do you do?

[HI express]

Ok folks...looking for possible reaction to this scenario.

You're at a shopping mall with the SO and kid. You are at a place where you can sit and watch the goings on of the people in the mall while your SO and kid go shopping. They walked down one wing and the mall is big enough that you can't see them..no big deal.

All of a sudden you hear a muffled explosion, smoke starts billowing from the wing that they went down, the sprinklers kick in, folks start running in all directions...your basic pandemonium and chaos scenario.

Do you book to the prearranged meeting place (in the case TSHTF)? and wait it out? Or do you put hand on CCW (without drawing it) and head into the smoke to try to protect SO AND kid? What are some other things can you do as a CCW holder?

Thanks in advance for your opinion and thoughts. How do you prepare?

 

[R.H. Lee]

The thing already went 'bang', so I don't know what good a handgun is going to do you. You're in a 'rescue and recovery' mode now, go find your family.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I think the basic instinct of anyone, CCW holder or not, will be to head in the direction that your family went. I guess it will come down to a lot of things. Like how long they have been gone. Do I know exactly which store they went to. How big was the explosion etc.

Then again, I'd probably not even think, but just head in the direction of where I seen them go last . If I can that is.

 

[TMM]

either it was a planted bomb or a terrorist with bombs strapped on him... either way, there's not really any threat. go in, find SO and kid, but be dready to drill a BG.

~TMM

 

[Trebor]

Find your family and get them out of there.

Be aware that often times a SECOND bomb is set to go off later to get the rescue workers. If your all together already, get out, unless you have a duty to respond.

 

[HighVelocity]

I never separate from my Wife and Son in a crowded area specifically for this reason. Odds are the tide of people running away from the trouble will be impossible for you to get passed.

 

[goosegunner]

I would rate the possibility of structural collapse, falling objects, fires and exposed power cables to be far greater than a possible 2nd bomb, and if I was a T and trying to inflict maximum demage bomb #2 would be at a emergency exit.

Trying to solve this situation with a gun, would be like the carpenter who sees his first screw and use a hammer to get it into the wall.

A normal first reaction would be to run in and find your loved ones, not smart. If you run in and hurt/kill yourself you will not be able to help anyone, and probably you will reduce the possibility of rescue for all involved. (By adding one more person to the rescuers work load). If you take time to evaluate some of your options, you will be able to avoid the most dangerous/stupid moves and you will expand your own and others possibility to survive, and the chances of you not only finding your family but be able to do something for them when/if you find them. Then ofcourse comes all the difficult stuff:
If you dont find them, but others who need help will you help them or keep looking?
If you find them injured, do you have the training/knowledge to do something usefull?
Would you risk others getting hurt/more injured to get to your family?
Will you be able to not do stupid stuff in panic?

Probably you won't know till you are there, but having first aid/first responce training (formal or not) will give you a better chance to be smart.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Your a better man then I HighVelocity. When my Fiance starts shopping for cloths, I'm off to the electronics stores to check out the BIG flat screens or some other such toys.

If I stayed with her I'd be asked all those questions men should avoid answering at ALL costs!!!!

 

[HighVelocity]

Rock, notice I said "crowded area". Not shopping mall. We've pretty much boycotted those altogether. The only mall around here that's worth visiting is posted so there's no ccw allowed. Therefore, I buy elsewhere.

Besides, if we did end up in a mall it's not so bad when she wants to go into Victoria's or Freddie's. I get to embarrass the heck out of the kid and the merchandise is nice to look at.

 

[Control Group]

This is what the term "deliberate speed" was invented for.

Assuming that I am properly capable of rational thought (this is a big assumption, and is based on my reaction to smaller "emergencies" like driving safely while being run into. I've never been in a real SHTF situation, though, so all bets are pretty much off), I move with all deliberate speed to the last place I saw my family unless there are rescue workers already on the scene. That means taking as much time as necessary to evaluate the situation, plan a route and a search plan, etc. But there's no replacing time, and it's entirely possible that, if they survived, my family will need assistance before "official" personnel arrive.

That being said, I'm not a trained EMT, nor a paramedic, nor a medical professional of any kind. Depending on the circumstances if/when I find them, I may well wait for such a person to show up before doing anything. But if the building's going to collapse, or there's fire approaching, they're going to be far better off if I move them before it gets there than if I wait for someone to show up with a board.

If I can't find them after a reasonably thorough search, either they got out already or it's hopeless, and I'd proceed to provide as much assistance as I could to anyone else I could find until emergency services got there. Once I see firefighters or EMTs, I'm out of there as fast as humanly possible.

 

[45lvr]

the question was posed as a shopping mall. i would not be carrying in a shopping mall because someone would have to have a gun on me to go in one. i hate those places, always have. but, i would go to where my loved ones were suposed to be to get them out. of course taking all precautions as i could.

 

[Luchtaine]

since I have no SO, or kid I think I would attend to the cutest victim I could find.....

... especially since thats the only reason I go to the mall. Well not to hope for explosions you know what I mean.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I would rate the possibility of structural collapse, falling objects, fires and exposed power cables to be far greater than a possible 2nd bomb, and if I was a T and trying to inflict maximum demage bomb #2 would be at a emergency exit.

Wrong.

First bomb is frequently a smaller charge, set off specifically to draw emergency forces to the scene. The second bomb is bigger and designed to take out as many first responders as possible.

Sorry to say this, but the wisest course of action is to get the **** out of the way and let the people who know how to respond to these things respond to these things. If going TOWARD a bomb explosion in a mall isn't in your professional (not personal) job description ... you're only going to be in the way. Go outside and stand on the sidewalk where you won't become part of the problem.

 

[psyopspec]

Surprised no one mentioned cell-phones yet. Assuming the explosion didn't wipe out a tower and no one jammed signals, step 1 would be to hop on that beast and call them to see if they were clear. If no answer, step 2 would be to run toward the event.

Thinking about this gives me another reason to be glad that I decided to take a first aid course for my science credit in college.

 

[hso]

What goods the gun going to do you? Fire and rescue gear is the only thing that would be usefull in this situation followed by a cell phone.

Call the wife immediately before the cell circuits get jammed, head to the car (or rendevous), if there's no answer after getting a ring head back to the last area that she was seen and start a search.

 

[R.H. Lee]

First bomb is frequently a smaller charge, set off specifically to draw emergency forces to the scene. The second bomb is bigger and designed to take out as many first responders as possible.

That's scary. Evil scary.

 

[Bob F.]

Muffled explosion = terrorist? Maybe, maybe not. I'm a former firefighter/paramedic. The actors that did "Backdraft" spent a few days with FDNY. "All your instincts are screaming 'get out!' and they're going IN!" Sad but true: any suspicious-looking individual of mid-eastern descent that I meet going in, probably isn't going to make it out. Notice, I did say suspicious-looking. I have a few Arab friends and I truly feel sorry for them in this day & age.

Stay safe, and alert.
Bob

 

[goosegunner]

First bomb is frequently a smaller charge, set off specifically to draw emergency forces to the scene. The second bomb is bigger and designed to take out as many first responders as possible.

Depends on the terrorist (maximum fear or maximum demage), but you will anyway do better away from any consentration of people (both onlookers, people on the way out and 1st response). There is not much use in ewading the 2nd bomb only to get trampled in the stairs.

...wisest course of action is to get the **** out of the way and let the people who know how to respond to these things respond to these things. If going TOWARD a bomb explosion in a mall isn't in your professional (not personal) job description...

Its not in my job description, but it is (was) in my training, and I know all the 1 dead better than 2 dead, if I get myself killed I can't help anyone...etc. So going into a dangerous place to find/help someone, I will not do before the place is "secured" (by proffessionals if necessary, but it depends). It's really the same for any emergency. If a kid is run down in the middle of a busy road, do you run out and help him or do you stop traffic first?

 

[Horsesense]

How about this. The same situation only you and your family are together and the mob of terrified people are about to trample you and yours….. Do you pull iron and “turn the herd” ?

 

[Sinsaba]

Hawkmoon ... what you say is true, it is also hard for people to accept that this is the best course. Also, it is all well and good to sit here at the keyboard and say "I'd do such and such...", of course we don't really know.

I would like to think that I would have enough of a grasp of the situation to do the right thing and get out of the way but who knows.

Additionally, what if this was actually the third building with a lot of people in the area that was bombed in the past hour? It is certian that we (the wife and I) know nothing about it and there will be a huge deficit of first responders.

All in all very depressing. The only thing I can be sure of is that I'll do whatever seems best at the time.

 

[shepherdschool]

smoke, bomb, shopping center...

The LAST thing I'd do is go running though the smoke. Crowded place+ explosion+ current situation + possible WMD. A very current training scenarios prepare first responders for that very situation. Find the family and get out. If you smell something or feel funny its probably to late.

 

[Rickstir]

My wife is never out of my sight (well restrooms are different) when we are in the city. We used to go to Ram games at the dome in STL. We always parked about six blocks away at a friend's bar. We had a plan that if we were ever separated and SHTF (it was a little unsettleing right after 9/11 to be in a big enclosed dome--read target of opportunity) we would meet back at the car. Same thing applies in other situations.
We have a signal if we want to get the other's attention, like in a store or other public place. If one wants to meet at the exit and discuss, we touch a finger to the side of our nose, similar to the Sting, movie. Seeing that means we meet at the exit we came in at, or follow the nod of the person giving the signal. My wife (and I) have confidence in my situational awareness. It has come in handy more than once.

 

[CAS700850]

Yes, tactically, it is proper to call immediately on the phone, and rush to the prearranged meeting place, and escape the situation.

The chances of me doing that are slim and none.

Why? I'm no hero, but I'd walk on broken glass for my family. I'd go look for them. I know it's not rational, it's emotional. But that's what I'd do. I know myself well enough to do that.

And, yes, I appreciate the "never divide your forces" argument, but there are simply times when i don't want to spend an hour outside the dressing room while she tries on clothes, when there are other stores that I can go to and address my ADD issues.

 

[Control Group]

I see a lot of people saying the best response is to wait for emergency personnel.

I disagree. Was it Patton who said something like "a good plan now is infinitely superior to a perfect plan later?" Emergency responders are more trained than I am, more equipped than I am, and more skilled than I am. The one thing they aren't, however, is on the scene. I cannot overlook the possibility that my family, if they survived, are in a situation where a minute more or less will mean the difference between life or death. I would be unable to live with myself if I spent fifteen minutes waiting for the government to help, during which time my family died when they might have lived.

If this means I dramatically increase the risk to my own life, so be it. I'm sure the best bet for my survival is to get out of Dodge, but it's not my survival I'm worried about. My first responsibility is to my family, my second to anyone else I can help. That's a personal decision, of course, based on my own ideas about morality. Of course, I also pick up stranded drivers and give them lifts to the nearest gas station, which isn't the best possible plan for personal survival.

All that said, there are two caveats. First, I know my own limitations: if there's a cloud of chlorine gas pouring out of the affected area, there's nothing I can do. There's no point rushing into a situation I can't help at the cost of my own life, obviously. Second, if emergency personnel are there, my plan changes to beating the hastiest retreat possible. They're far more likely to be helpful than I am.

*shrug*

To me, though, it's a question of taking responsibility for me and mine. When I've got to face myself in the mirror later on, do I want to see someone who did everything he could to help, or someone who trusted the government to take care of things for him?

Edited to add: there is a third caveat, and it's that I've never actually faced a real life-or-death situation (aside from driving in LA, that is ), so all this talk is just that: talk. It's what I plan on doing, it's what I hope I'd do, and it's even what I honestly believe I'd do. That doesn't mean that, when the chips are down, I can't turn out to be wrong.

 

[roo_ster]

First Responders Ain't First on the Scene

Move out & find family while calling wife on cell. Get them moving to a safe area, most likely the car in the parking lot. Render aid to the injured.

*****

Just because there is nobody around to make like Alexander Haig and declare, "I'm in charge, here, now!" doesn't mean that useful and meaningful aid will not be rendered. It may look messy & chaotic, but things get done by those who are the true "first responders."

The few times I have been in an emergency/accident situation, the first people on the scene to render useful aid were not in uniforms. They were regular folks who happened to be near, but not near enough to be smashed up by the event: first aid, such as getting a hand(le) on serious bleeding, monitoing folks for shock, etc & other useful acts.

Face it: if you or someone else is seriously injured and are bleeding profusely, waiting for the boys in uniform is a good way to die. "Golden Hour" my a$$. More like, "Mad Minute," IMO.

I don't think my "get moving & help" experiences are isolated. The jet that crashed in Canada spilled near the highway. Many motorists stopped to render aid and drive passengers to the terminal.

At the WTC, folks decided to get outta dodge and helped others who couldn't navigate the stairs on their own. If they all had waited for some guy in a uniform to tell them what to do, I bet a whole lot more would have died.

I think Hollywierd likes to portray groups of people reacting to events as bleating sheep. Not doubt, many are. But, there are lots of folks who will jump in and give a man a hand.