Faced with dilemma (M&P Shield 9mm vs. Kahr PM9)

[Big20]

Picked up the Shield, too tall, gritty trigger. Have a cw-9, loved it's easy carry features. Bought a cm-9 when they came out and it is the easiest to carry 9mm I've found. Reliability with both Kahrs has been 100 percent. Yes, the trigger takes practice to be accurate with. I did an overload boo boo with the cw-9 and Kahr service was great.

 

[Dr_B]

Go with the Shield. That is all.

 

[Hunter991]

Depends if u can conceal a Sheild. I have the kahr cm9 and love it. Bought it over a Sheild and never looked back. Easier to conceal and high quality. Instead of the pm look at he cm. basically same gun but same price as the Sheild. And smaller.

 

[vba]

As others have stated, I bought the CM9 stripped it down, lubed and put it back together. Then I proceeded to cycle the slide hard 2 to 300 times. The gun has been reliable from the first mag.

The thing I like about Kahr is the barrel length of 3 inches (same as Shield) while having an over all length that is ~0.68" shorter than the Shield . Kahr knows how to build very compact pistols. I think the Shield is too big for such a short barrel gun.

The following link contains some great pictures of what I'm talking about:

http://mp-pistol.com/mp-shield-pist...itial-thoughts-comparison-pics-lots-pics.html

 

[Soldiernurse]

I owned a CW9 and absolutely despised the trigger axn. I'm not a revolver guy. I do own a Charter Arms Pitbull .40S&W, love the cocked back single action, but admit the double axn mode makes for good practice at the range. Although, my Pitbull is not in my EDC rotation. Anyway, I digress.

I live in Texas, so MA's ignorance does not apply. I love the ergonomics of the M&P line. Although, only in the past 3-4 months has M&P finally made a more user friendly. Me M&P9C I bought used with test fire dated in 2011. Not long after a couple iterations at the range I went w/Apex DCAEK. Resulted in < 5lb trigger pull wt and more evident reset. Bought my Shield NIB $449. It had a little over 7lb trigger pull wt w/test fire date 5/8/13. So, I waited at the gun store while they R&R'd stock trigger assembly w/Apex DCAEK, as well as TruGlo TFO GRNs. The trigger wt result was to < 6lb trigger pull wt.

I don't know if an after-market trigger assembly is available for the Kahr's? I' imagine the Kahr purist will say the stock trigger assembly is just fine & leave it alone. I'd like to also mention the M&P's ergonomics & eye appeal are superior to the Kahr line.

The only Leo/Mil Blue Label firearm prices available in my area is GT Distributors. They offer a First Responder (same/similar) price on Glocks only. IMO, the OP should jump on Shield.

Spec Comparison
Kahr PM9
w/ External Safety & LCI
PM9193 (3.1" Barrel)
Black polymer frame, matte stainless slide with external safety & Loaded Chamber Indicator (LCI)
Caliber: 9mm
Operation: Trigger cocking DAO; lock breech; "Browning - type" recoil lug; passive striker block
Barrel: 3.1", polygonal rifling; 1 - 10 right-hand twist
Length OA: 5.42"
Height: 4.0"
Slide Width: .90"
Weight: Pistol 14 ounces
Mag: 1.9oz
Grips: Textured polymer
Sights: Drift adjustable, white bar-dot combat sights
Finish: Black polymer frame, matte stainless steel slide
Mag Cap: 6+1, 7+1 (mag w/ grip ext)
MSRP: $828
-----------------------------
S&W M&P Shield40
Axn: Striker Fire...
Apex DCAEK / < 6lbs Pull Wt
Barrel Length: 3.1"
Sights: TruGlo TFO GRN
Overall Length: 6.1"
Frame Width: .95”
Overall Ht: 4.6”
Wt: 19.0 oz
Frame Material: Polymer
Barrel/Slide Finish: Blk68 HRc
Sight Radius: 5.3”
External Thumb Safety
Mag Cap: 6+1 & 7+1 (w/ext grip)
MSRP $449

 

[bannockburn]

I checked out the Shield when it first came out and felt that it was just a bit larger than my Kahr PM9. The trigger was okay but a little gritty (though it would probably smooth up a bit with use), and the design itself and the way it handled was comparable to the Kahr. If given a choice between the two I would go with the PM9 as I prefer its smaller size and ergonomics over those of the Shield.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Go with the Shield. That is all.

This.

Now, that is all.

 

[wolf695]

Get the S&W, your better off in the long run.

 

[hardluk1]

Atleast be fair in the comparison betwwen a like sized kahr and shield. The cw9 or cw40is closest to a shield in weight and size and at a cost that the same or lower. The low cost version of the smaller pm9 is the cm9 too.

 

[OregonJohnny]

AWCherry,

I've seen a few posters already mention it in this thread, but I don't think you've acknowledged it - what about the CM9? It is 95% of what the PM9 is, at half the cost. I have a CW9 and a CM9, and they have both been 100% reliable. The only things they lack from their more expensive P/PM counterparts are polygonal rifling, dovetailed front sights (although they are still replaceable), an extra magazine, nice rollmarks on the slide, and machined slide stop. None of these things has been an issue with me, especially considering the price cut you get.

Even though the CM9 pushes the "comfortably pocketable" envelope for me, it is doable. Anything bigger would be out of the question for me, and the Shield is bigger. I've never shot or even held the Shield so I can't knock anything about it.

I like the Kahr trigger. It does take a little getting used to if you've been shooting 1911s or Glocks exclusively. But it really is smooth and light. Just a long reset.

Anyway, take a look at the CM9 if you haven't already. The money you save over buying the PM9 will buy you plenty of extra magazines, a holster and ammo.

 

[meanmrmustard]

Atleast be fair in the comparison betwwen a like sized kahr and shield. The cw9 or cw40is closest to a shield in weight and size and at a cost that the same or lower. The low cost version of the smaller pm9 is the cm9 too.

If that's the case, I'd still say Shield.

Has a much nicer trigger.

 

[arizona98tj]

I'll go on records saying that my PM9 has run like a champ since I first cleaned it and fired the first magazine through it. That was hundreds of rounds ago. (no, it's not my regular range practice gun but it does see some range time)

It wouldn't surprise me in the least that the 200 round break-in period referenced by Kahr is as much intended to get the new owner accustomed to shooting a 14 oz. pistol as it is to let the parts wear in. I read the same kind of comments on the XD forums where new XD-S (very small single stack .45ACP) owners had issues. Just as with the PM9, I couldn't get my XD-S to malfunction no matter what I tried. It to is totally reliable as I recently passed the 600 round mark with it.

It is easy to get a very small semi-auto to run reliably? I believe it is more of a challenge than doing so on a full size pistol. I'm still not completely sold on the fact that it is always the firearms fault. Just my opinion.....

 

[CZguy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardluk1 View Post
Atleast be fair in the comparison betwwen a like sized kahr and shield. The cw9 or cw40is closest to a shield in weight and size and at a cost that the same or lower. The low cost version of the smaller pm9 is the cm9 too.

Originally posted by meanmrmustard

If that's the case, I'd still say Shield.

Has a much nicer trigger.

That's really a personal opinion. As an old revolver guy, I would rate the Kahr trigger as excellent, and the Shield trigger as acceptable.

It's not that either one of us is right or wrong. It simply comes down to what each one of us prefer.

 

[Soldiernurse]

That's really a personal opinion. As an old revolver guy, I would rate the Kahr trigger as excellent, and the Shield trigger as acceptable.

It's not that either one of us is right or wrong. It simply comes down to what each one of us prefer.

Have you fired a Shield? I like your reference to your a long time revolver guy, which IMO validates your Kahr preference. I say that since I'm not a revolver guy, do own a Charter Arms Pitbull .40S&W that's been very reliable & kicks like a mule, and appreciate my Shield .40S&W.

 

[meanmrmustard]

That's really a personal opinion. As an old revolver guy, I would rate the Kahr trigger as excellent, and the Shield trigger as acceptable.

It's not that either one of us is right or wrong. It simply comes down to what each one of us prefer.

To assume that a creepier trigger with a less clean break is good because you're a revolver guy is the other end of that spectrum.

Not only does the Shield in many opinions have the best factory trigger that Smith offers in a semiauto, you'd be hard pressed to make a case for Kahr.

I find the ridiculously heavy DA triggers of wheel guns to be unnecessary and strictly nostalgic. Comparing your experience with revolver triggers to that of a DAO semiauto adds little to comparison. In Smith versus Kahr, if you told me you preferred the Kahr trigger over that of the Shield line, I'd have an idea you were assimilating your opinion rather than weight of pull, travel, break, and reset...things that aren't subjective.

 

[arizona98tj]

My Kahr PM9 has a stock trigger that measured 5 lb, 8.5 oz. this past weekend. (was comparing it against a friends new pistol)

For a semi-auto that has no safety of any kind which I have for CCW, I don't see a single problem with a 5 1/2 pound exceptionally smooth trigger.

 

[Soldiernurse]

My Kahr PM9 has a stock trigger that measured 5 lb, 8.5 oz. this past weekend. (was comparing it against a friends new pistol)

For a semi-auto that has no safety of any kind which I have for CCW, I don't see a single problem with a 5 1/2 pound exceptionally smooth trigger.

I'm no Kahr expert but maybe yours is an outlier? It is my understanding Kahr triggers are around 7-7.5# trigger weight & 3/8" trigger travel. More times than not, a Kahr trigger is alot heavier than a Glock NIB trigger. Your trigger may well be smooth, but you cannot rebut the fact of a looong trigger pull.

 

[meanmrmustard]

I'm no Kahr expert but maybe yours is an outlier? It is my understanding Kahr triggers are around 7-7.5# trigger weight & 3/8" trigger travel. More times than not, a Kahr trigger is alot heavier than a Glock NIB trigger. Your trigger may well be smooth, but you cannot rebut the fact of a looong trigger pull.

This has been my experience as well.

Minus the smooth part. Nominally, the Kahr trigger for me has had a mushy break. Pull was not horrible, just not crisp and surprising once the trigger had finished its travel.

 

[CZguy]

originally posted by Soldiernurse,

Have you fired a Shield? I like your reference to your a long time revolver guy, which IMO validates your Kahr preference. I say that since I'm not a revolver guy, do own a Charter Arms Pitbull .40S&W that's been very reliable & kicks like a mule, and appreciate my Shield .40S&W.

Yes I've fired a Shield quite a bit. I find them to be a good carry gun with the best trigger in the M&P line. Out of the box I would rate the trigger as acceptable.

These views are subjective and based on personal opinion. I started out shooting revolvers and 1911s in the sixties. I'm comfortable with them, so while I'm able to shoot the new breed of triggers, I prefer what I can shoot the most accurately. For me, that's a Kahr P45, and a P380 on Sundays.

meanmrmustard, please note, that I didn't say that you had to agree with me, or shoot the same type of pistols well. My whole point in this discussion, is that trigger pulls are purely based on what each of us shoot the best. So no one can proclaim what the best trigger is.

 

[arizona98tj]

Your trigger may well be smooth, but you cannot rebut the fact of a looong trigger pull.

I thought I made myself quite clear...since my PM9 has NO safety, I like the tigger just the way it is....and that includes the fact that it is DAO. So yes, it has a longer pull....and I LIKE THAT too. Put a thumb safety on it and I can't think of a reason to have a long trigger pull.

 

[shooter60]

I bought my wife and daughter a S&W M&P 9c because we could not find a Shield and they like the feel of them just a little bigger than the Shield but put the small back strap in and fits there hands great

 

[meanmrmustard]

meanmrmustard, please note, that I didn't say that you had to agree with me, or shoot the same type of pistols well. My whole point in this discussion, is that trigger pulls are purely based on what each of us shoot the best. So no one can proclaim what the best trigger is.

Sure, I can. Plus, I have.

I've trigger time with both guns. Odds are, someone going to purchase either of these two pistols is either going to learn to shoot it well or already knows the genre.

This discussion is that of one little semiauto being a better buy than another semiauto, and why. We are talking two small guns that self load, many of us use daily, and have objective information as to which is strictly better. I don't see where there's a lot of subjectivity posted yet.

My experience centers around semiautos. I've no need for revolvers, and find that their usefulness for me goes as far as handgun hunting. That being said, one would think, as far as triggers go, we would compare the trigger of these guns to each other, not give one a handicap because a poster has time behind revolver triggers. That would be subjective. It's like the S&W Sigma discussions of yore:

"The Sigma has a very gritty, heavy trigger"
"Nah, its fine."
"How do you figure?"
"I shoot revolvers, so it is a good trigger"
"...but it's a different kind of pistol."

The best "vs" threads, ones that actually work, are apples to apples.

 

[AWCherry]

AWCherry,

I've seen a few posters already mention it in this thread, but I don't think you've acknowledged it - what about the CM9? It is 95% of what the PM9 is, at half the cost. I have a CW9 and a CM9, and they have both been 100% reliable. The only things they lack from their more expensive P/PM counterparts are polygonal rifling, dovetailed front sights (although they are still replaceable), an extra magazine, nice rollmarks on the slide, and machined slide stop. None of these things has been an issue with me, especially considering the price cut you get.

Even though the CM9 pushes the "comfortably pocketable" envelope for me, it is doable. Anything bigger would be out of the question for me, and the Shield is bigger. I've never shot or even held the Shield so I can't knock anything about it.

I like the Kahr trigger. It does take a little getting used to if you've been shooting 1911s or Glocks exclusively. But it really is smooth and light. Just a long reset.

Anyway, take a look at the CM9 if you haven't already. The money you save over buying the PM9 will buy you plenty of extra magazines, a holster and ammo.

Unfortunately, the CM9 is not MA-compliant. Despite the fact that it is essentially the same gun as the PM9, our Attny General has a specific list of guns that are available for sale, and the CM9 doesn't qualify.

Unfortunately, I'm still waiting on the Shield to arrive. It's been quite some time, and I've been getting restless with it. I'm starting to the debate the merits of picking up an M&P 9c over the Shield as well. The size difference is primarily in the width, but it comes with the added advantage of a higher capacity. Since the LGS that I work with doesn't require money down, I placed an order for a 9c as well, and told them I'd pick up whatever comes in first. If it's the 9c, so be it. My father is retired military, and I can allow him to stake his claim on my Shield if/when it comes in.

Thanks to everyone for the overwhelming amount of replies and information. Despite the differences of opinion in what constitutes the better choice, everyone has made excellent points, and I appreciate it.

 

[hardluk1]

I have 3 different model kahrs , a cm9 , cw9 and tp40 and all have a less than 6lb trigger by the time you shoot a couple hundred rounds. Hard to compare the little brick glock to kahr period. Width & weight put it in a different class with a lot of other semi-small pistols. Plus I would rather try to carry a g19 than g26 with that muched up grip hump. Even a shield be be a better choice even if a apex trigger kit is needed.

AWCherry To bad MA. is so messed up

 

[JustinJ]

It depends largely on how you plan to carry. The shield, i believe, is really stretching the limits of pocket carry for most. I have an LC9 and it's just barely small enough, imo, after carrying a PF9 for some time. On the other hand, the stories of Khar reliability issues would concern me as well.