FAL DSA .308 build

[Motega]

You seem to be saying the bolt issue was different from the recall... it isn't... as far as my research has determined. DSA knew about the heat treating issue and that's the recall that we are talking about. It's seems to me you have an axe to grind with them... I would too if I waited 6 months for service, that sucks. But "DSA (to my knowledge) never had a recall on those rifles" yes they did in fact but it was tough to tell which were covered ... was yours an STG or an SA58?

As far as FALfiles goes I wish I could use them but again it has now been over 2 weeks and no one over there has even bothered validating my request. I wonder how much info isn't getting on that site from users like me that can't even post stuff?

I see it like this- you may be able to save a few bucks by buying all the parts to a Toyota and putting a truck together but I'd still rather buy one brand new from a dealer. Yeah, there may be a recall on it but what are the risks of buying from 20 different dealers? What about what my time is worth? What about all the shipping and subsequent time spent dealing with returns if necessary?
This isn't a hobby for me. If it were I would see the merit in scavenging parts for a project.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I would completely agree with searching comments on the FALfiles, but I don't think it will or should change your mind.

Most parts-kit FALs are built from used military parts. At the moment there are Argentine parts kits available from SARCO that are unused (though previously assembled) and, combined with a new receiver, would give you an essentially new FAL.

But you need a receiver. DSA's FAL receivers are by far and away the best FAL receivers currently available, or frankly ever made by anyone, ever, including when compared to FN itself (true FN-made receivers are not readily available and command ultra-premium prices when found). The next best thing is an IMBEL receiver, which is an FN licensee and an oddball as it's a forged type III, whereas most type III receivers are cast. As such IMBEL's receiver is among the strongest FAL receivers ever, though not necessarily any better than a DSA, which is also forged and uses a tougher, more expensive alloy (4140 vs. 1060) and a different heat treatment process. You would not go wrong with an IMBEL however. No new IMBEL receivers are currently being imported. You can occasionally find as-new IMBEL receivers on the market for premium prices. You could also get an early Century FAL with an IMBEL receiver and dispose of all parts except the receiver. This might not cost much more than buying a bare IMBEL receiver.

I have FALs built on DSA, IMBEL and Entreprise receivers. All are good. I think the DSA is the best.

My SA-58 was in the recall group. I shipped it in a week ago Monday and should have it back Monday (two days from today). They were absolutely terrific to deal with, and literally couldn't have done any better unless they had someone drive to my house to inspect the gun on the spot. (Mine turned out not to have the issue that they were inspecting for.) From this small hassle I got a $20 credit and a free plastic rifle case for shipping. Really, the customer service has been unbeatable.

I've also called DSA several times in the last year on a couple different questions, and have always been able to reach a knowledgeable person and get useful, accurate answers. This is better than I can say for some other fairly big name companies.

DSA is the only company in the US, and I believe also the world, currently making every part of an FAL new. A few other companies are making cast receivers, two or three are making trigger sets and/or furniture, and otherwise you're looking entirely at the mil surplus used market. DSA's presence is a huge plus to all FAL owners in keeping the platform alive, instead of a fading ex-military rifle like, well, nearly all other western rifles no longer in frontline military service, other than the M1A which is kept alive in a similar way by Springfield Armory, Inc. and a handful of boutique builders.

 

[paulo]

I have a DSA type 2 on an Imble kit, its a great gun. DSA is fine.You can build your own or buy one pre built. Either way you win.

 

[Z-Michigan]

You seem to be saying the bolt issue was different from the recall.

Actually the "bolt issue" is different from the current recall, which is for lower receiver hardness issues. The "bolt issue" I've only ever seen reported on FALFiles, but there are apparently some, like Dobe, who got rifles with weak bolts, probably due to improper heat treatment or alloy.

A weak bolt is an issue, but at least you would typically discover it quickly. It's worth noting that a number of AR manufacturers have also had issues with weak bolts, as has (supposedly) Springfield Armory, Inc. for the M1A. Bolts are usually highly stressed, and weaknesses result in failures.

If someone was going to worry about this, you could buy a new, unused military surplus bolt and install it in your FAL, although headspacing would be required. But that would give you no benefit unless you happened to get a lemon bolt from DSA, and if you just shoot the rifle you should discover any lemon bolt within a few hundred rounds anyway, then DSA's lifetime warranty gets you a replacement. A possible nuisance, but nothing is for absolute certain.

Assuming you don't get a lemon, FAL bolts (often referred to as the breech block for the FAL, but it's the same thing) usually go 10's of thousands of rounds. This compares to the M14/M1A, but an AR15 bolt is basically considered a wear item and often fails in 10k or less, and many people replace them "on schedule" at 5k or so.

 

[Dobe]

It's seems to me you have an axe to grind with them

If I had an axe to grind, I would not have waited for so many post before I told of my personal experience.

When you post on a forum, you must and should expect comments, and even warnings. Mine was a warning. It is your money, your research. I'm sure you will be happy with your purchase.

 

[Dobe]

Actually the "bolt issue" is different from the current recall, which is for lower receiver hardness issues

I kept hoping he would catch this. I alluded to it above. The bolt issue was NEVER a recall, even when it should have been.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Dobe - how many bolt failures have you heard of, and is there any pattern of year of production or configuration? I've heard of one or two other than yours, but haven't been following closely. Whether or not it should be a recall really depends how common it is. I've read more reports of bolt breakage on SAI M1A's than I have for DSA FAL's.

 

[Dobe]

There is a log of bolt failures on Falfiles, with serial numbers. Mine is one.

 

[Motega]

I did a search and I found only ONE quality issue which was the one we have been talking about regarding bolts that weren't properly heat treated. It's a shame that a company with decades of experience and tens of thousands of quality rifles produced could get so thoroughly trounced for a single recall- which they promptly rectified. It is completely inexcusable that you waited 6 months for your rifle and I'd like to hear DSA's side of that story for sure, but so far this company has had an A+ from me in service. Like I said my sales guy gave me his personal cell phone number to talk about my build when the shop was closed. It's not like I am awarding them a lucrative contract here, it's a single rifle purchase. It's like everything else, go to a restaurant and have a decent meal, you are probably not going to mention it or maybe tell a friend... have a BAD experience and you will be telling everyone you know until the end of time.
Anyway, the "FALfiles" you mention STILL haven't had the courtesy to activate my account, and I frankly don't know if I want to be part of an online community whose moderators are so disinterested.

 

[Dobe]

This will be my last post on this matter, as I believe that you have completed your research to your satisfaction, and I have stated my opinion.

have a BAD experience and you will be telling everyone you know until the end of time.

True, but there are companies out there with stella customer service reputations. One is Smith & Wesson and another is Springfield. Regarding the former, I once had to send a Smith Mod 19-3 back twice (that's three trips) for repairs on the same initial problem. Yet, if you go to one of the two Smith forums, there isn't a lot of clamor about Smith's quality control or their service. Things happen, and I do not throw up a red flag everytime someone mentions Smith & Wesson.

tens of thousands of quality rifles produced could get so thoroughly trounced for a single recall

There was never a recall, thus a problem. If DSA finds there is a problem with poorly heat treated bolts within a series of serial numbers, then DSA should recall those rifles. If DSA does not find a correlation between a range of serial numbers, then it denotes a pattern of poor quality control.

In reference to the kits I suggested, I need to clarify something. The Argy kits are complete with the exception of a few parts, one being the receiver. You don't have to build it your self. There are plenty of people who will build it for you for a nominal fee. Any warranties after that are between you and the builder. It's just an option. One that I will use in the future.

As to your inability to access FALfiles, I will PM a moderator in regards to your problem, if you would like. You will need to let me know, if you wish for me to do so. I would hope you will give them the same consideration you are giving DSA. There are some very knowledgable FAL folks on that forum.

My DSA is going back to them (or so I believe) due to their receiver recall. I didn't mention that one did I? I wonder how long they will have it.

 

[JShirley]

Motega,

Most of your choices look good. The one thing you might consider is LOP. I noticed you said you're a shorter guy- me too. The length of pull could be too long on this. If you can handle a similar rifle before your build is completed, you should know if that fixed stock will work for you.

I would personally prefer a 20" barrel, but if you're always using ear pro, that won't matter much. Enjoy.

John

 

[Motega]

Dobe- and others- PLEASE excuse my almost "double post" which came off as being insistent and stubborn... I;m an idiot- the only other forum I regularly post on, the Leatherwall traditional archery board does NOT group posts into multiple pages. So I somehow thought that my first page 1 post did not get onto this thread and basically reposted the same info again, which no doubt seemed redundant and like I have blinders on. Once I realized this message board software does the multiple pages thing I saw that my post yesterday did in fact get on the thread and my following reply probably seemed rather insistent to Dobe who took the time out of his life to type a few threads for me. SORRY Dobe!!!!!!! I didn;t mean to seem disrespectful, arrogant, or rude and being one of the guys that answers noob questions on the Leatherwall, I know that each post is like 10 mins. out of your life to a stranger so when they don't listen or seem like they are just skimming over a response it's rather insulting.

Thanks so much, and please let's continue this discussion because this is the most important gun purchase I probably will ever make.

THANKS ALL and let's keep it going and again please forgive the noob THR message guy... I've learned a lot so far here and don't want to let this thread die quite yet!!!

I like this board you fellas are great. PS- please DO PM the mods at FAL files for me.

 

[Dobe]

You are a true gentleman, and I take no offense. Actually, I don't know if there is anything else I can add. You seem to have no problem doing leg work, which is great. Many will simply impulse buy. I am occasionally guilty of that myself.

If you purchase a DSA, I have no doubt that if you have a problem, they will eventually make it right.

I feel that we all as shooting consumers have the obligation to criticize those manufacturers who fall short of expected and advertised quality. There is a difference between criticizing and simply throwing darts. Make no mistake, the internet is a powerful tool. These manufacturers listen when the volume is appropriately loud.

My hope is that DSA will get their quality control in line. They are the only manufacturer of FALs and FAL parts. Therefore we should all hope they will stay in business.

I have a 16" Para, and eventually ( hopefully after the lower is replaced ), they will make it right.

PS- please DO PM the mods at FAL files for me.

Consider it done.

Edit: I've PMed a mod. See your PM.

Edit: Mod has responded, and I have PMed you. The fix is simple.

Edit: Fix is in the works. Enjoy your FAL and FALfiles.

 

[Motega]

still no response +3days... what gives with those guys?

 

[W.E.G.]

All pending user-requests on FAL Files are validated.

 

[Dobe]

W.E.G would know. He's the administrator.

 

[Motega]

My thanks for getting it taken care of.

I did consider the length of pull on this build, and that I'm a tyrannasaurus-rex-armed oompah-loompa statured fella but the short gas system kinda turned me off jkust becuase it's nonstandard. Also, a well-respected FAL gunsmith in Arizona, no names please, seemed to suggest that while a 16" barreled FAL works fine it is pushing the design to it's limits ... that is, the rifle as designed was not made to scale down that far. At least that's what I took away from the conversation but I may very well have misunderstood why he said to steer clear of anything under 18".
I can't have a folding stock in the people's republic of New Joisey and the collapsible stock always struck me as looking like someone dropped a full stock into a piranha tank and that's what was left when they got done with it.
I guess I can always put a collapsible (or if I move out of NJ folding) stock on it later, right? Or no?
I placed the order today by the way! Mike and Taylor must have spent a combined total of 2 hours talking to me about this rifle and putting the order together. 4 Half hour phone calls - and I know cause my phone has one of those call timer counters on the screen. So far so good.

Now I guess I start the hunt for some good prices on a variety of ammo. Is that a subject beat to death here or has it been long enough to warrant a fresh thread?

Again, thanks for everything guys!

 

[Z-Michigan]

I guess I can always put a collapsible (or if I move out of NJ folding) stock on it later, right? Or no?

Possible but a lot of work. The standard FAL has the recoil spring and related parts inside the buttstock. To use a folding stock, you need to swap out:
-buttstock
-bolt carrier
-recoil spring assembly
-top cover
-possibly other parts I'm forgetting

I believe DSA has a kit for these "para" parts, it's in the $220 range IIRC not including any buttstock (another $200 or so).

As for ammo, any quality .308 or 7.62x51mm (not exactly the same thing, but close enough where an FAL is concerned) will be fine. Check out AIM Surplus and Palmetto State Armory for best prices. DAG German surplus is good if you don't plan to reload.

 

[Dobe]

Good luck. You'll do well.

 

[JShirley]

Class act. Glad you're here, Motega.

Thanks, W.E.G. and Dobe!

John

 

[Motega]

I picked up the rifle today and overall I am very pleased with it. The photos I took were not very well composed or anything, I was losing light fast and just snapped a few quick ones. I'll post a range report early next week. let me know if the link isn't working

http://photobucket.com/SA58