Faster powders for .45 ACP?

[Nordeste]

I don't own any pistol in this caliber (would love to, though, it's a caliber I'm pretty fond of), therefore I don't reload, but I have a question you .45 ACP reloaders are surely able and will be willing to answer .

Are faster powders suitable for this caliber?. Over here there's no access to American or Vihtavuori powders (plain and simple, they're not imported ) and all we have are the French Vectans and the locally manufactured Optima (two flavors, A and R, being R slower), which, luckily enough, are good quality, versatile powders. 45 ACP shooters that I know use Optima A for it. This is a medium burn rate powder that is suitable for shotgun, 9 mm, .45 ACP, shotgun and even some rifle reduced loads. Between 5'2 and 5'5 grains under a 230 grain bullet make major PF. For me, 4'7 under a 125 grain make 132 PF in my 9 mm pistols.

Now the odd (for me) thing. Some guys over here are using Vectan BA-10 for the .45 ACP. This is a very fast powder, commonly used for calibers such as the .32ACP or .38 Special. They claim 4'2-4'5 grains are enough to make major, with a clean, low residue shot. There's a bit of an argument about this. Some say that it's just too fast for it, some others that it works pretty well and that, in fact, it's the best one within the Vectan range for this caliber. People of this opinion say the Optima A is much better suited, or even other Vectans such as the BA-9 (as the name indicates, originally formulated for the 9 mm), or the much slower, double based SP-2 (used for those who reload .38 Super to make major PF in Open division guns). As a reference, BA-9 used to be a bit faster than Optima A but no longer. They have changed the formulation and now it's much weaker, needing 5'4 grains under a 125 grains bullet to achieve 132 PF in a 9 mm.

What does THR think about this?. I'm interested in the matter and would appreciate your inputs.

 

[Walkalong]

Bullseye is a favorite for .45 ACP. Pretty fast stuff. N310 is another fast powder that works great for target loads. Lots of fairly fast powders work well in .45 ACP. I have used stuff in burn rate all the way from N310 to AA #5 in .45 ACP. Where do those Vectan powders fall in there?

 

[Walkalong]

I just looked at a Vihtavuori burn rate chart. It looks like ba10 would be good for light target loads with ba9 being better suited to full velocity stuff. Like N310, I would be careful when working up the load, it could get too fast real quick at the top. .1 more could be too much.

 

[kerreckt]

I have used a number of powders that would be considered fast to moderately fast (Solo1000, Bullseye, Titegroup, N310, AA#2, and AA#5) with good success. Reloading for the 45acp is pretty forgiving when it comes to choices of powder in this range. Best wishes

 

[Nordeste]

According to the attached chart, BA10 is actually a little bit slower than Bullseye or N310. Optima A is not present in this chart. It's also known as CSB-1. It is, nowadays, a bit faster than the current BA-9.

It sounded kind of strange to me, to use fast powders in a low pressure cartridge that is usually shot through a 5" barrel (typical 1911 barrel).

 

[kerreckt]

I agree, at first glance it does seem a bit strange but I think the fact it is a low pressure load comes into play. I believe the original load for.45acp was using Bullseye or an equivalent powder. Best wishes

 

[Walkalong]

The 1911 works quite well with a high energy short duration kick from the powder charge.

 

[ATLDave]

I share kerreckt's understanding. I have read that the original military load for .45ACP used a charge of very fast powder. It's not necessarily the best way to get a bunch of velocity, but if you wanted a bunch of velocity, why are you shooting .45ACP?

 

[Nordeste]

Understood. Thanks for your inputs, gents. I'm now a better educated man when it comes to the .45 ACP .

 

[Blue68f100]

I use WST which is just under the BA10. Normally these charts change orders every time they re-run a test, so being next too each other makes them pretty equal as to burn rate. I like WST better than BE mainly because it burns a lot cleaner. Normally when you use a fast burn powder you will get a very clean burn even at low charges. Now with that said you can get higher velocity with a slower burn powder at a lower pressure. Both are fully acceptable practices.

 

[GLOOB]

It sounded kind of strange to me, to use fast powders in a low pressure cartridge that is usually shot through a 5" barrel.

This is exactly where you want to use faster powders.

 

[Nordeste]

This is exactly where you want to use faster powders.

I'm afraid I'm about to learn something else ... A 5" barrel falls on the "long" side for me, if we are talking pistols. Surely there are longer barrels, but not for the most common applications (carry, service, etc...). My thought is (or was...) that a 5 incher could take advantage of a slower powder so as to reach higher velocities. Why do you want to use the slower powder, then?.

 

[rcmodel]

Velocity in the .45 ACP is limited by the max operating pressure, and the gun (1911) it was designed around.

The original military load for about 80 years was around 4.8 grains of Bullseye.
That gave the 230 grain FMJ-RN bullet about 830 FPS, at reasonable pressure.

You can use slower powder and gain a little, but not a whole lot.

A Max charge of Bullseye (5.3 grains) gives 878 FPS @ 17,100 CUP.
A Max charge of much slower Longshot (7.0 grains) gives 922 FPS @ 17,100 CUP.

SO, 2.0 more grains per round to get 44 FPS more velocity.

Most .45 shooters go for the more economical fast powder the guns were designed around.

And get 300+ more rounds per pound of powder.

The slow burning powders really come into their own when used in Magnum class revolver cartridges.
It really pays off there.

rc

 

[Dframe]

In general, recoil operated pistols work best with quicker powders. The action requires a fairly fast impulse in order to operate efficiently. I don't think you can go "too quick" with conventional powders in a 45 acp. It's entirely possible to go too slow and not generate enough recoil to effectively operate the action. I believe Bullseye is the fastest powder available in the States, and is used EXTENSIVELY in 45 acp by shooters here.

 

[7mmb]

The fast powders work great for 45 Auto for light recoiling target loads. The range between min and max is pretty narrow so you need to be really careful with charging though. They are very economical too.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I don't have a .45 acp so I don't load for it, but if I did I would go on the fast side.

I keep Bullseye, W231 and Unique on hand. Either of three would work splendidly.

 

[jmorris]

I used a lot of BA-10 when it was still imported here, it was super cheap. I could load 1000 rounds for $18 back then.

I have used N 310 and N 320 as well but use Clays most of the time.