Feds Seize Collectors Antique gun Collection, look for Something to Charge him With

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see post # 16, by Bubbles:

Quote:
''Obviously we need to know more before we jump to any conclusions, but if he really does just have a C&R license, they are for collecting only, not for running a business...''

''He holds a Type 08 importer's license, not a C&R. Number is 5-85-00983, publically available info from the ATF's web site...''
__________________
EFI, LLC - 07 FFL / C2 SOT in Inwood, WV - Custom Firearms & Gunsmithing
 
Is anyone aware of the person's Gunbroker or Gunauction screenname?

The authorities have surely followed it and it could shed light on whether the person is a collector or engaged in a business.

IMHO, if a person is known to have over 1000 firearms, it is not unreasonable for the authorities to suspect that the person could be engaged in a firearms business. If the person is engaged in buying and selling firearms, and it rises to the level of a business, and he does not have an FFL, he does so at his own peril.
 
Looks like someone engaged in a business to me:

www.adamsguns.com
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RIF you guys he has a Type 08 (importer) FFL.
Click to expand...

Someone at the same address also has an "01" (FFL) license.

This was clearly a firearms business and whether the proprietor was breaking other laws, and not merely engaging in a firearms business without a license will need to be seen based on the evidence.

I Think we need to give Mr. Adams and the BATFE the benefit of the doubt till all the facts are known
 
Yes, the 08 was mentioned a number of times and then there are the regs that go with it.

""Firearms imported by a licensed importer must be marked in accordance with the provisions of 18 U.S.C. § 923(i) and 27 CFR § 478.92""


The article was quoted as saying that some his items weren't properly marked. I figure the guns pictured on his site are properly marked if he imported them, so I won't be examining them for missing marks at a high zoom level. (I could do that, I'm bored, I was going to paint my metal roof today, but it's snowing right this minute and game time isn't until 6:30. Well it's flurrying anyway and still below freezing so it's time to regroup.)
 
Given the ATF's escapades (disaster of a sting operation in Memphis, the family they tried railroading in NM) I'm more inclined to give Mr. Adams the benefit of the doubt than our esteemed civil servants.
 
Consider this... Having an importers mark on a collectable firearm lowers the value. (Think Lugers, WW2 Mausers, etc.) I know the mark doesn't affect the usability, but high-end collectors want their stuff to be 100% original and that's just the way it is.
Now, you are an importer of very high grade collectables and have just imported in, say, a Walther MP prototype in .45 ACP of which only two or three are known to exist. Its value is around $130-140K. Wouldn't you be just a little loathe to break out the electro-pencil and scribe "Bob's Guns Imports,LLC" on the side of it?
I'm not saying this is what happened, but I could truly understand if it is.
 
^That's my theory. It'd be nice if the ATF had some secondary way of verifying proper import for especially historical/valuable merchanidise that didn't involve mangling it. They don't require an owner's address to be written on the back of a Matisse painting, why demand an engraving on a 10K$ firearm? For an extra fee (so not everybody does it) have them record the make/model/serial in their own database as "legally imported: unmarked" and be done with it :rolleyes:

In such a case, I have to wonder if the potential for a lawsuit has been explored. I mean, the government's regulation has obviously caused a law-abiding citizen damages by requiring the marring of a collector item, with no recourse for compensation. Sounds like a violation of confiscation rules, to me, if substantial loss of value can be proven. Has anyone brought this to court?

TCB
 
My local gunsmith with a legal shop is currently being audited by the ABTF and they are putting him through the wringer because he didn't have people first mark the box for "Non-Hispanic" before marking the box that actually designated their government assigned identity. He had not been checked for 13 years and they are making him go back and correct all the forms possible which would involve thousands of guns. I asked him if they said why it was so important to mark "Non-Hispanic" if you were designating a box that is clearly not Hispanic? He said that he did but they had no response except that "That is the way we want it done." And people wonder why those of us in the general population that have to deal with bureaucrats have no confidence in the competence of any government agency.
 
Raid one, scare thousands. Even if he's exonerated, it will cost him thousands of dollars in legal fees. If his collection is returned, I'll bet they'll be scratched and dinged. In that case, I hope he sues for damage.
 
I expect to see more and more of this. We are all branded "potential criminals" so they feel they can do what they wish to drum up charges to prevent us from doing crimes.... Sheesh, free country my butt....
 
4v50 Gary said:
Raid one, scare thousands. Even if he's exonerated, it will cost him thousands of dollars in legal fees. If his collection is returned, I'll bet they'll be scratched and dinged. In that case, I hope he sues for damage.
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I believe the applicable phrase is: "Pour encouragez les autres..."
 
Someone with more legal experience than me can comment but it looks like the feds were after the guy for more than firearms violations.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/127371466/Warrant

http://www.scribd.com/doc/127371464/Warrant-Return

http://www.scribd.com/doc/127371469/Warrant-Application
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I have no experience in these things, but it looks to my untrained eye like a serious investigation and not a case of over-zealous BATFE employees giving someone a hard time just for the fun of it.
 
Hmmm..........Seems like there was a lot involved here, including renumbering new machine guns to make them match registry numbers for transferable stuff.

Even if we don't agree with provisions of the NFA, violating them is a sure way to land in hot water. Just don't do it. Especially with MGs.
 
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