Feinstein gives up on AWB

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I don't get it, why would a conservative president suddenly decide to sign a liberal anti-gun bill after he is no longer touchable? That makes no sense, and no one has bothered to try and make it make sense. Keep grasping for those straws. If this thing fails now, we are going to win this thing as long as Congress and our President doesn't go liberal. If John Kerry gets in there, you can bet he will be using his influence to get it back in. Make no mistakes about that.

And for Pete's sake, a vote for anyone other than Bush is a vote for Kerry. Plain and simple. If you don't mind Kerry being in as a punishment for Bush, fine, I respect that. However, you are saying you are voting your conscience and you vote for anyone other than Bush knowing full well you took a vote away from him and made it more likely for Kerry to get in, then you are consciencously voting for Kerry. Heck, even a "I don't want Hillary to win in 2008 so I am voting Kerry now" excuse sounds better.
 
Condie Rice '2008!!!

I'm voting Lib in the PRK (absentee) because the PRK's a lost state, and I vote my principles...

I'd much rather vote my principles, than play politics..
 
And for Pete's sake, a vote for anyone other than Bush is a vote for Kerry. Plain and simple.

I don't think so. If I decide to get chocolate ice cream is that a default purchase of vanilla? What if I'm doing Atkins and decide not to get any ice cream at all, is that a default purchase of vanilla?

I wonder how businesses would be able to stay afloat using that line of reasoning.

If John Kerry gets in there, you can bet he will be using his influence to get it back in.

Kerry cannot do so without approval from Congress, and I wonder how much they'll be agreeing on anything with a Republican congress, much less something that has burned the Democrats and they know it. I'd also like to know why people will give them credibility when the ban dies and suddenly blood does not flood the streets.
 
Finish your line of reasoning: You will make a purchase of ice cream. Whatever purchase you make is a sale some other flavor(or vendor, whichever) did not get. To you the only two real choices are chocolate or strawberry. Vanilla is not an option. You buy the strawberry and the chocolate is left sitting. The vanilla gets bought by some other people and the chocolate, remaining at the end of the day, gets tossed. That's the "consequence" of your choice. Simplistic but true.

I assume there is zero chance of your voting for Kerry. So your choices are Bush or Brand X. Since Kerry has no chance of your vote that IS a vote Bush could have gotten which he does not get and that DOES help Kerry. Likely Bush voters who "protest" vote are helping put Kerry in office. Now if you tell me you would vote for Kerry before Bush then by ALL means vote third party. But I doubt that is the case and so you are STILL helping Kerry.

As for Congress, you assume the Repubs will keep control. That's a gamble. What if they do not? Then you just helped hand control to not merely Kerry but the Dem party as a whole. All thx to an assumption and a protest that achieves nothing. You want to protest? Fine. Do it after this election. See to it that the Repubs run a decent candidate next time. Or help create a viable alternative to the two party system. But for this time around protests are too little, too late.
 
Haha from what I've heard about/from her, I think Rice would make a decent president/VP. I think it'd be hillarious to see a Rice/Powell ticket. $50 says the naacp would still call them racist republicans and another $50 says they'd tell the naacp and the urban league what to do with themselves when they demanded a speech.
 
Kerry cannot do so without approval from Congress.
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Hmmm, how did the Senate vote for the AWB amendment to S1805 earlier this year? Oh, that is right, they voted for it. Now you place a liberal President in office, who is going to be asking for a lot of back scratching so he doesn't have to veto your little pork project you got going, are you so sure there are enough solid conservatives in office that won't sell us out? Do not underestimate the power of the president to influence legislation, especially the assault weapons ban. We know these are not evil guns used solely for murder and mayhem, but there are many out there that don't even know what the AWB is about. They assume it is for fully-automatic weapons.

And I don't even know why we are continuing to debate what your vote means. Wasn't your vote for Ross Perot in 92 a perfect example of what a third party vote means? Did everyone enjoy 8 years of Clinton so much they want to risk 8 years of Kerry all to prove a point? This world is not perfect and it never will be. Change is possible. Look at Arnold out here in the PRK. Everyone was saying how he was no better than Bustamante or Davis and he was a pocket Kennedy. They said vote for McClintock, he is our man. Thankfully us misfits out here in liberal land went ahead and went with a viable option. Arnold is not perfect, but he is fighting the system. I don't think we are any worse off out with him, but better off. Small incremental changes for the better should be prefered to large horrible changes for the worse. Who do you think Kerry is?

I find it entertaining that some people would rather risk Kerry and a new AWB than risk Dubya because he is suddenly going to turn liberal on us and pass a AWB because someone says so. It baffles me.
 
You want to vote Libertarian this November go ahead. But first take a trip out here to the sunny PRK and get a feel for what it's like when the Democratic Party rules the earth. Make no mistake a vote for anybody other than George Bush this year is a vote for John Kerry.
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Some of us are thinking ahead longer than just the next election.
 
Some of us are thinking ahead longer than just the next election.
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Is it that "some of us" are heading off a Hillary run in '08 by voting for (1) Kerry, (2) Nader, (3) Libertarian - not voting at all?


BTW, folks... it's also important to support strong 2ndA-ers in congressional races. If you (finally) go with Bush, the slim majority needs bolstering.
 
To you the only two real choices are chocolate or strawberry

Nope, I've got 31 flavors and then some, I don't accept that false limit, thank you very much.

that IS a vote Bush could have gotten which he does not get and that DOES help Kerry

Bush doesnt own my vote, I am not indebted to him nor the Republican party.

Likely Bush voters who "protest" vote are helping put Kerry in office.

What makes you think I'm a likely Bush voter?

You want to protest? Fine. Do it after this election. See to it that the Repubs run a decent candidate next time.

Sorry but I've been there, done that, and the Republicans didnt even give me a lousy T-shirt. The republicans have been pushing VERY aggressively for bigger and bigger govt and I refuse to support them in doing so.

Hmmm, how did the Senate vote for the AWB amendment to S1805 earlier this year? Oh, that is right, they voted for it.

They did so with the help of Republicans as they also did passing the 94 Crime Bill, so what do I own them again?

Wasn't your vote for Ross Perot in 92 a perfect example of what a third party vote means? Did everyone enjoy 8 years of Clinton so much they want to risk 8 years of Kerry all to prove a point?

You're assuming another 4 years of Bush the Elder and 4 years of Dole would have been better for gunowners. IIRC is was Bush I who passed the 89 import ban, went on at length about these evil AK-47s, and actively supported the passing of the 94 crime bill.
 
Justin, he was simply noting that Bush's weasel words on the AWB do not require him to sign a new bill in 2005 even if it reaches his desk. I don't think anyone is suggesting that it would be hard to write a bill.


I just want everyone to remember this important bit of advice:

DON'T TAKE ADVICE FROM YOUR ENEMIES!

These people have no reason to offer us useful advice. They're not even writing for our benefit. Let them grasp at slim hopes, but don't buy into it yourself!
 
You're assuming another 4 years of Bush the Elder and 4 years of Dole would have been better for gunowners.
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Hmmm, 4 years of Bush vs. 8 years of Clinton. You have a good point there Glock Glocker. I am glad we didn't let Bush stay around. He would have completely destroyed the 2nd Amendment. Thankfully we had Clinton and he wasn't bad at all. :rolleyes:
 
I don't get it, why would a conservative president suddenly decide to sign a liberal anti-gun bill after he is no longer touchable? That makes no sense, and no one has bothered to try and make it make sense.
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Conservative president?
--Stalinist healthcare (Medicare drugs--$540 billion)
--Infringed right of free political speech (Campaign Finance Control)
--Open borders (December 2003's Come Hither Criminal Aliens for Amnesty speech)
--No Child Left Behind (sucked up to Kennedy)
--My memory fails me in recalling other "conservative" initiatives.

Bush is a corporatist at an absolute minimum. I find corporate tyranny just as unacceptable as state tyranny. "Conservatives" (what ever the hell that means) in my mind are not associated with tyranny.
 
You miss the point, Rojo, you can say that the Clinton reign was bad for gunowners, and it was, but you don't know what the alternative would have been otherwise. Just to put the whole election into context, RKBA isn't the only thing I care about though it is huge but I will not support someone who signed that BS campaign finance reform bill as well as the Patriot Act.

RKBA does only so much when the govt can now prosecute you as a "terrorist" for an almost unlimited amount of actions and they can bring you to trial not of a jury of your peers but by a secret military tribunal. It's great that Bush hasnt pushed for gun control even though his transportation secretary Norm Mineta fought to prevent pilots from being armed, but not attacking the 2nd amendment doesnt make up for attacking several others.

Bush had a chance to be a leader and he blew it, let's see if he further blows it between now and September.
 
Vote mountainclmbr for president!

The AWB was only about appearances. It could make someone a felon, not because of acts, but because of appearances.

I respectfully ask that an Assault Politician Ban (APB) be enacted. Any politician that I find to be ugly should be 1. cut up and melted 2. allowed to appeal after 10 years.

I (can there be more than a capitol "I"???) I, "I" """III""" think that Feinstein, Boxer, Schumer, Kennedy, etc are particularly unattractive.

Support me. I will get the APB passed and enforsed as the law of the land. No need for two Johns to flush all the BS!! Vote Mountainclimbr for president!!! Communists can swim back to cuba!!!
 
A vote for any third party is really stupid this year. Our best chance is a well controlled Republican Congress and the issue won't even come up.
 
Nope, I've got 31 flavors and then some, I don't accept that false limit, thank you very much.

Doesn't matter one whit what you accept. Doesn't matter how many flavors are up on the menu board. If they only have two in stock you'll choose between them or go home empty-handed.

In this case we have two: Kerry or Bush. One WILL be president. Period. There is no debate on that absolute and unalterable fact. Since it's reasonable to assume you would not vote for Kerry AND that you WILL vote you have just cost Bush a vote. You can't escape that.

Bush doesnt own my vote, I am not indebted to him nor the Republican party.

Did not imply he did or you are. I stated the there is only one possible alternative. All other flavors are out of stock and most aren't even being ordered.

What makes you think I'm a likely Bush voter?

You'd vote for Kerry then? if so then this entire discussion is moot.

Sorry but I've been there, done that, and the Republicans didnt even give me a lousy T-shirt. The republicans have been pushing VERY aggressively for bigger and bigger govt and I refuse to support them in doing so.

And it is still better than the ONLY alternative. You can say how many other flavors are out there but that's just too bad. You can't have them. Sorry, tough luck. You get one or the other this time. AND as some extra parting gifts you get SCOTUS appointments from one or the other. You ALSO get to endorse the extreme left which currently controls the Dem Party, if Kerry wins. OTOH if he loses it is yet another huge blow to that hard-left minority that shrilly manages to control the Dems by threats and money.

There is no logical reason for voting a third party this time around. None. Just excuses. If you want to paint yourself a rosy picture, fine. But don't act upset when nobody buys it.
 
There is no logical reason for voting a third party this time around. None. Just excuses. If you want to paint yourself a rosy picture, fine. But don't act upset when nobody buys it.
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Bravo!

Principles are one thing, letting someone who stands for virtually nothing you beleive in is another...

I prefer my special interest groups to have a few loonies in them, not be controlled by loonies...

Wilddubyain2004Alaska
 
And you might recall he campaigned on renewing the AWB, only shutting up about it, (Never actually repudiating the position.)
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True, but why even bring it up when 70-80% of Joe Q Public thinks it a bad idea? By doing nothing like W is, we win.

But yeah, he (or the GOP) needs to be held accountable if they renew it in the second term.

And if you guys like your AR's and 11+ round mags, voting for anyone but Bush will be just like voting for Kerry. Hold your nose if you want, but voting for Perot in '92 got Clinton in , and then two years later, the AWB.
 
That's all too credible, and all too good a reason to vote Libertarian.
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Maybe in the congressional and Senate races if the candidates actually have a chance there. Voting libertarian in the presidential race is going to effect the outcome of the presidential election the same as not voting.

If you want to make a protest vote, that's your right to do so, but you aren't helping prevent the AWB renewal by doing so.
 
Haha from what I've heard about/from her, I think Rice would make a decent president/VP. I think it'd be hillarious to see a Rice/Powell ticket. $50 says the naacp would still call them racist republicans and another $50 says they'd tell the naacp and the urban league what to do with themselves when they demanded a speech.
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Rice is someone who I think I could be happy voting for. Powell is not. He's too much of a consensus builder. A consensus is a good thing most times, as long as you're willing to make a moreal stand on truely important issues, and do what you should do, not what the rest of the UN wants you to do.

Rice I think has the backbone to do that. Bush has shown he does. Even Clinton (who I don't have much respect for) did to some extent. Powell does not. Kerry's invertebrate.
 
But don't act upset when nobody buys it

I'm not the slightest bit upset, me and mine will continue to vote Libertarian because they more closely represent what we believe in than Republicans or Democrats and only when those two move to our direction will we support them.

Why would I support them if they continue to spit in my face and enlarge the govt?
 
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