AWB: no difference between Bush and Kerry?

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antsi

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Bush: has said he will sign a renewal of the current AWB if it makes it to his desk. (wink, wink... nudge, nudge). Meanwhile, he has had his desk flown to Mars to prevent any such bill from contacting said desk.

Kerry: dropped everything in the middle of Super Tuesday electioneering and flew back to DC at Feinstein's behest, to vote for AWB renewal. Has said he supports "expanding and strengthening" the AWB to include not just all types of firearms, but also slingshots, pointed sticks, and any object made of metal.

Sorry, I just don't buy this "Bush = Kerry" stuff.

Yeah, philosophically, I'm with the Libertarians.

But as a practical matter, if we all go out and vote that way, we are going to get Kerry for Pres and Hillary/Feinstein running the Senate and they will pass some very nasty gun bans.
 
I'm not a big fan of Bush but I'll vote for him. He's the lesser of 2 evils. Yes....I agree,anything less is a vote for Kerry. I think that Kerry would be Bill Clinton all over again or even worse. :(

If a moderate/pro gun Democrat were running against Bush I would probably vote dem. It just seems that the far left dominates the dem party.

275,000,000 people in America & we can't find anyone better to run for president???? :rolleyes: :confused:
 
Do what you like, but I don't want to hear any mewling when Bush signs an expanded AWB...
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You're probably right. We can all vote Libertarian and then just turn all of our firearms in or become criminals when Kennedy, Schumer, Clinton, Dodd.....et al pass firearm confiscation and Kerry signs it into law.
 
You're probably right. We can all vote Libertarian and then just turn all of our firearms in or become criminals when Kennedy, Schumer, Clinton, Dodd.....et al pass firearm confiscation and Kerry signs it into law.
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Three problems with this:

1.) The GOP has already shown that it is willing to pass laws to curtail your rights, in exchange for more pork. If new gun regulations are made law, it won't matter if they were made law by the donkeys or the elephants.

2.) Wholesale confiscation will not be written into law for a long time, if ever. The anti-gun parties will just constantly make it harder to buy new guns, buy ammo, train, et cetera. It's been working for a long time, and I see no sign that their plans will change.

3.) Even if gun confiscation laws are passed, do you really plan on complying with them? If you do, then you're SOL no matter how you vote.

- Chris
 
Bush is going to win my state, Virginia. Period. In Virginia, I'll be wasting my vote if I vote for Bush in the false fear of helping Kerry win.

Bush is going to win many other states, such as his own, Texas. Period.

Kerry is going to win Massachusetts. Period.

Kerry is going to win some other states, like New York. Period.

Only in a small minority of "in play" states, such as Florida, can the LP or Green or Constitutionalist vote have a "spoiler candidate" effect. Period.

Thus, the argument that a vote for the LP is a vote for Kerry doesn't hold up (except in only a few states).

I'm voting LP for president, and anyone who tells me that is a vote for Kerry is utterly devoid of any facts whatsoever.

Period.
 
John Kerry:

Q: Do you find it necessary to kill animals for photo-ops?
A: I don't think the Democratic Party should be the candidacy of the NRA. And when I was fighting to ban assault weapons in 1992 and 1993, Dean was appealing to the NRA for their endorsement, and he got it. I believe it's important for us to have somebody who is going to stand up for gun safety in America and make certain that we make our streets safe, our children safe, and not allow people to get assault weapons in America.

Source: CNN "Rock The Vote" Democratic Debate Nov 5, 2003

If your state is a strong Bush state already, I can see voting for the Libertarian candidate (whoever that is...or should you vote Constitution Party? Or Reform Party?), but Minnesota WILL be a battleground state for the first time in what...30+ years?, so I'm voting Bush.

(BTW -- This from a guy who voted Libertarian in my 6th-grade mock-election.)
 
I'm sure there are more than a few Democrats and Greens in New Hampshire and Florida that thought the race was a lock for either Bush or Gore and decided to vote for Ralph Nader on "principle", figuring that their vote would make no difference.

Whoops!:cool:
 
HBK, you're missing his point. He said it would matter in states that are in play. However, Illinois and Virginia, for instance, are not in play. Illinois WILL go to Kerry. Virginia WILL go to Bush. In those states, why not vote your conscience free of any fear that you will fail to be Bush's winning vote?

Believe me, if the Libertarians are going to be the difference between Bush winning and losing in Illinois, then they'd deserve to win Illinois in any fair election. It's going to be that big a landslide for anybody with a (D) next to his name.
 
Believe me, if the Libertarians are going to be the difference between Bush winning and losing in Illinois, then they'd deserve to win Illinois in any fair election.
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The Libertarians have never made a difference in ANY presidential election! I'm sure the Libertarian Party's record will remain perfect this year as well.;)
 
bush wants to renew the AWB though only in its current form. good luck getting it to his desk.

kerry would sign AWB2.0 and would ban new items such as kel-tec su16,sub2000 and saiga sporter ak rifles and a number of others. Imagine whats in California being NATION WIDE.:what:

I dont like having to vote bush. its lesser of two evils. repubs dont controll senate and with kerry in office they would get things done thanks to the backstabbing rhino's.:fire:
 
HBK: The argument does hold water dischord, especially since the last election was won by ONE state
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Re-read what I wrote -- especially the part about "in play" states. As Don pointed out, I acknowledged that in a few states, like Florida, the argument has merit. But in most states, it does not have merit.
Cactus: I'm sure there are more than a few Democrats and Greens in New Hampshire and Florida that thought the race was a lock for either Bush or Gore and decided to vote for Ralph Nader on "principle", figuring that their vote would make no difference.
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Well, an educated third-party voter should assume nothing. He watches the polls up to election day, and if his state is in play, he strategizes his vote accordingly. The polls have a margin of error. If one guy’s lead is within the margin of error (or even close to it) that state is in play.

In fact, the Greens were very aware of what might happen in Florida -- so much so that they had a "vote trade" website set up. In theory, a Gore voter in, say, New York, would hookup with a Nader voter in Florida, and they'd each vote for the other guy's candidate. Thus, in the in-play state of Florida, the Nader voters could avoid playing spoiler voters, but their guy still would get a vote somewhere. In reality, the GOP grassroots found out about it, and many people posed as Nader voters down in Florida in an attempt to pull votes from Gore in places like New York -- there were only so man Gore voters in Gore-safe states willing to do this, thus some of the real Nader voters couldn't participate, their slots being already filled with fake Nader voters.
 
mrapathy2000: I dont like having to vote bush. its lesser of two evils. repubs dont controll senate and with kerry in office they would get things done thanks to the backstabbing rhino's.
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I'd wait to see if Iowa is in play. If not, you will be wasting your vote on Bush
 
Bush and Kerry's stated positions on gun control are fairly close. I know that Kerry will go out of his way to advance those positions. Bush apparently is all talk when it comes to gun control.

The real test comes after the election. For a couple of months, or four years, Bush is going to be a lame duck, with the power of the Presidency, and no worries about ever having to face the voters again. THAT is when we find out where he really stands on everything. I would be moderately suprised, but not totally shocked, if he turned out to be a pro-gunner who just thought that he had to mouth anti-gun rhetoric to get elected. I wouldn't be suprised AT ALL if he turns out to be a real SOB who resorts to executive orders to hurt us.

The point is, we don't know yet about Bush, because everything he says about everything is political calculation. We DO know about Kerry, unfortunately. So at this point I take the gamble rather than the certain loss.
 
If one guy’s lead is within the margin of error (or even close to it) that state is in play.
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Or if you have a newspaper like we do here in Minneapolis, you add 10-20 points to the margin of error.

The Minneapolis (Red) Star Tribune had Gov. Ventura, Gov. Pawlenty and Senator Coleman all behind their Democrat rivals by a significant margin up to the day of the election.
 
Bush and Kerry's stated positions on gun control are fairly close. I know that Kerry will go out of his way to advance those positions. Bush apparently is all talk when it comes to gun control.
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I'm not sure if mentioning one time that he will sign an AWB renewal if it makes it to his desk equals "all talk", but Kerry has all but said that he invented the Assault Weapons Ban.

Some Repubs and RINOs may go with the flow and vote for stupid new laws to court the middle of the road vote, but the Dems are the ones MAKING the stupids new laws.

As far as actions go, Kerry has consistently voted for more and more and more gun control.

Didn't George W. Bush sign CCW into law in Texas? Do you think Kerry would have done the same thing if he was Gov. somewhere?
 
let's not focus myopically on the AWB...

I also am dissatisfied with Bush on a number of fronts: AWB, spending money and growing the gov't like a leftist, etc. I would consider voting Libertarian as a protest vote, to do my little part to remind the Republicrats what they are SUPPOSED to stand for. If we keep supporting them as they close the gap between themselves and the leftist Dems, then our gun (and other) rights will suffer, sure as shootin.

THAT BEING SAID, The Democrats would surely sell us down the river. Want some DATA on Mr. Kerry?

Kerry signed the manifesto, "A New Agenda for the New Decade", which among other things calls for: "Developing and requiring 'smart gun' technology to prevent use of firearms by unauthorized persons and implement sensible gun control measures."

If you think the AWB puts a crimp in your style, gaze into the leftist future (eg, NJ), and see how the development of "smart guns" would gut the Second Amendment...Kerry wants to be able to disable guns used by "unauthorized" persons.

Imagine a cabinet, the courts etc. picked by this guy.
 
Lets face it people, There is NO politician alive that is going to repeal a ban on assault weapons...WHY??
Because no matter what they really feel about this issue, they want to be re-elected.. PC mandates for the AW to be defeated.

To deregulate full auto OR assaults is political suicide..

Do I like it? NOOOO..

But this is reality.
 
I see what you're saying, I think. I really think Bush is WORLDS AWAY from Kerry as far as the 2nd ammendment is concerned. I mean, for all the evil things people want to say about him, Ashcroft is the first AG in a long time to publicly declare the 2nd amendment to be an individual right. Bush is much more pro gun than Kerry, there's no doubt of that. Therefore, put that with all the other issues on which I agree with him (abortion, tax cuts, etc.) as well as the good he could do with judicial appointments (evidenced by appointments he's already made) he's getting my vote. Kerry would wreck our country and our military worse than Clinton even imagined.
 
Three problems with this:
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Only one problem with your three problems.

If the conservatives/libertarians ever did anything besides pout, or throw hissy-fit "I'm voting for the Do Whatever You Want party" vote-wasting-fests, then we would have a solid majority. There would be little to no need for trading votes with leftists for "pork". But hey, the Democrats had a lock on both houses of Congress, the courts, and the Whitehouse more often than not because of the Republican's, and the RKBA's constituency's uncanny abilty to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Why should we bother to learn from that? Hell, those 40 years were an absolute blast now that I think back on it. Let's all either vote for the Losertarians, or just plain stay home. I'm sure that John "Swift Boat" Kerry knows what is best for us. Yeah. He'll know. It'll be GREAT!!!
 
If the conservatives/libertarians ever did anything besides pout, or throw hissy-fit "I'm voting for the Do Whatever You Want party" vote-wasting-fests, then we would have a solid majority.
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We?
You seem to be implying that conservatives and libertarians are idelogical allies - nothing could be further from the truth. I don't want the conservatives to have a solid majority - I want the libertarians to have a solid majority.

The reason that the republicans sell out our rights for pork has nothing to do with their lack of a majority in Congress. They sell out because it is in the nature of the party. Giving the GOP a stranglehold on Congress (or, God forbid, Congress and the USSC) is exactly the wrong thing to do; they would toss our rights into the big government furnace at an even faster rate.

I'm sure that John "Swift Boat" Kerry knows what is best for us.
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Funny. I'm equally sure that GWB knows the same.

- Chris
 
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