MachIVshooter said:It is not within The FFL's scope to deny that transaction
Not to side too firmly with a dealer who probably is being unnecessarily hard-nosed about this, but YES.Could the FFL claim that he thinks this is a straw purchase (selling it to the brother, after the FIL is denied)?
Not wanting to bring in the Feds...but, why not talk to BATFE and get real info from the people that have the last word?
It may even be possible to have the AK dealer send it to ANOTHER MT FFL -- AS A SALE TO THE BROTHER. Then the brother can pick it up, and do the appropriate transfer once your FIL is settled down. That's probably cheaper and easier than another trip to Alaska.
Not correct. It IS within the FFL's "scope" to deny the transaction as it would be a straw sale.......a Federal felony.MachIVshooter Correct. Which, as previously stated, his brother could fill out the form and take possession. It is not within The FFL's scope to deny that transaction, he's just being a persnickety jerk.
The Montana dealer isn't being a "richard-for-short".....he's following Federal law.dirtykid ^^ This ! and then come back and let us all know WHICH FFL in Montana to AVOID !,, why's he being such a "richard-for-short" ?
Making nice with the Montana dealer has nothing to do with this situation.......by law the Montana dealer cannot transfer the firearm to your FIL. No amount of being "nice" will change that.cameroneod He had no idea he could legally send the firearm to himself until I (and then the ATF) told him. He's trying to make nice with the ffl and work something out, but the last time I talked to him it didnt sound promising.
Straw sale. No dealer in his right mind would participate in that.Sam1911 ...."I want to sell this gun to my brother. He will hold it for me until I am settled. When I am settled in my new state, he will transfer it to me legally -- through a dealer in my new state."
Take the dealer to court for what?????Hardtarget None of this sounds right. Take the dealer to civil court. Make him explain his actions to a judge.
Hardtarget said:None of this sounds right. Take the dealer to civil court. Make him explain his actions to a judge.
Mark
As I said, he could refuse it, legally.Straw sale. No dealer in his right mind would participate in that.
It is a straw sale because the brother is not the actual purchaser/buyer/transferee......which is the first question on a Form 4473. According to the OP the FIL never intended to sell it to his brother, so having the FIL's brother attempt to acquire the handgun is a classic straw sale.SARDiver ....I wouldn't think it would be a straw sale if the brother filled out a form 4473, had the NICS background check and received the goods from the FFL.
The dealer could say he was going to melt it into a statue of Rosie O'Donnell.....and STILL no crime has been committed until he actually does so.Nushif You conveniently tend to skip the part where he says he will just keep it.
That is the part I would assume he would be taking the guy to court for. It is *not* the dealer's firearm.
Nope. If the dealer has any suspicion that it is a straw sale he cannot by law complete the transaction. The OP's first post said the FIL made it clear that the gun was intended for himself. The OP's second post states the dealer would not transfer to the FIL's brother.......undoubtably because he suspects a straw sale.Sam1911 ....But, he could chose to make the sale without breaking the law.
It is a transfer. The FIL did not ship it himself, to himself.....he had an Alaska dealer ship it to a Montana dealer.....which would require the Montana dealer to transfer the firearm according to Federal law.atblis Is this even technically a transfer? If I am understanding this correctly, this did not need to involve an FFL. It's not interstate commerce. Effectively what he did is ship it to himself.
pikid89 ask him to ship it back to Alaska on your fathers dime
if the FFL refuses to do even that, then i think you would probably be right on him wanting to keep the gun
goon Could the father have the gun shipped to the OP, his son, in another state.
Son takes possession, holds the gun, ships to his father's new FFL when the father arrives wherever he is going.
According to the OP the FIL never intended to sell it to his brother, so having the FIL's brother attempt to acquire the handgun is a classic straw sale.
SARDiver I still don't see how selling the weapon to someone who is legally permitted to own a firearm is a straw buy.....Unless my definition of the straw sale is completely off....I thought it was purchasing a weapon or ammunition for someone not lawfully entitled to do so himself.
SARDiver said:Unless my definition of the straw sale is completely off....I thought it was purchasing a weapon or ammunition for someone not lawfully entitled to do so himself.
cameroeod said:My father in law recently retired from the Alaska Railroad. He is in the process of moving all of his possessions to his brothers home in Montana where they will sit until he finds a place to live. He is not moving to Montana, he's just using it as a staging area.