Readyrod
Member
As the title says, I'm wondering what to look for in a good fighting knife. As in blade length and style, handle length and style, etc.
Thanks
Thanks
Fighting knife characteristics
- Thread starter Readyrod
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MaterDei
Member
Tough question. What type of training do you have? The fighting style dictates the knife style, no?
MutinousDoug
Member
Probably want to stay within the legal requirements of the jurisdiction you are moving to?
A blade that has some weight on the tip to support a slash or chop, but still has a good point to support a thrust. I tend to like the Sog designs. However, I am by no means a knife expert, I have no training or experience, but from what I have been able to gleen from the experts, versitility is a big plus.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Anticipation?
What sort of scenario is it that you anticipate?
Mugging? Attacked at home? Protection at work? Bedside? Protection outdoors while hiking?
Are you a big guy? Little guy? Tall and thin? Short and thin?
Do you have big hands, medium hands, or small hands?
Long arms? Short arms?
Upper body strength?
Reflexes?
You've lived in Japan for several years, and you're a family man. What's your level of training in martial arts?
Hard to advise someone on something like this -- especially when I try to avoid the whole knife-as-defensive-weapon thing -- without at least having some background and a few relevant parameters.
If you have a solid enough background, you can get some decent pointers from JShirley and hso, as both of them have more than a smattering of training in that area.
But before I toss out any advice, perhaps you can give us a little more material to work with?
What sort of scenario is it that you anticipate?
Mugging? Attacked at home? Protection at work? Bedside? Protection outdoors while hiking?
Are you a big guy? Little guy? Tall and thin? Short and thin?
Do you have big hands, medium hands, or small hands?
Long arms? Short arms?
Upper body strength?
Reflexes?
You've lived in Japan for several years, and you're a family man. What's your level of training in martial arts?
Hard to advise someone on something like this -- especially when I try to avoid the whole knife-as-defensive-weapon thing -- without at least having some background and a few relevant parameters.
If you have a solid enough background, you can get some decent pointers from JShirley and hso, as both of them have more than a smattering of training in that area.
But before I toss out any advice, perhaps you can give us a little more material to work with?
Gordon
Member
For thrusts 6" and better yet 7+" used to be considered a requirement.
The options are almost limitless and do very much depend on your skills,personality and how you intend to carry the knife.Try checking out Tactical Knives magazine and looking on Youtube for videos from Michael Janich and Paladin Press,should give you some ideas.You might also want to Google James Keating,Kelly Worden and Marc Macyoung.
With the time you have left in Japan look for a Ogawa Ryu teacher. Don't worry about the style of knife yet since skill is more important.
Remember that you're not going to be engaged in a duel or "fight" in any realistic sense. In the real world you'll be defending against a knife or, extremely rarely, using a knife in self defense and won't need dueling/fighting knives.
Remember that you're not going to be engaged in a duel or "fight" in any realistic sense. In the real world you'll be defending against a knife or, extremely rarely, using a knife in self defense and won't need dueling/fighting knives.
Readyrod
Member
general self defence
medium height, good strength from lots of cycling and swimming, maybe medium sized hands. The buck 102 is too small, the 119 seems about right.
Zero, I'm working too hard.
From what I can gather you can thrust and slash. As per Jeb21 I guess I need to add chopping too. Is there a design that is good for all, or, like most other things, is there a good compromise design? I was checking the FBI paper on bullet penetration and they said that 12" is a minimum. Is there a minimum for blades too? I would think that the longer blades would be awkward. There must also be some knife points that are better suited too.
Ive also been thinking that if it is for defense you would need a general knife as you are not choosing the circumstances of the fight.
I don't know anything about knife fighting other than what I've read, mostly here, but I respect the THR opinion more than most of what I read on the net.
Sorry to ramble.
RR
You do not want to use a knife for self defense. A stick of some sort is preferable, with a knife being a desperate last resort.
It didn't take me long when I started training to learn that it is more important for you to learn to defend against a knife than it is for you to learn to use a knife.
You are usually limited by law in what you can carry. Since your interest is when you return to Canada you'll need to learn what the Canadian law and Provincial and local restrictions are. Practically you're limited in how large a knife you can carry. I know people that comfortably carry a 9" bowie style IWB, but it has become part of their wardrobe instead of something that is "carried". Most people find it too difficult to carry a fixed blade over 3" in length day after day.
Most ideas about carrying a knife for self defense are pure fantasy and most of the rest are illusion/delusion. If you're not willing to dedicate the time to study and train with a teacher you're best off with something simple that you won't get a lot of attention for carrying. That way you're likely to have it on the remote chance that a need arises instead of having put some sharpened canoe paddle in your underwear drawer after a month trying to sit comfortably at your desk and in the car.
It didn't take me long when I started training to learn that it is more important for you to learn to defend against a knife than it is for you to learn to use a knife.
You are usually limited by law in what you can carry. Since your interest is when you return to Canada you'll need to learn what the Canadian law and Provincial and local restrictions are. Practically you're limited in how large a knife you can carry. I know people that comfortably carry a 9" bowie style IWB, but it has become part of their wardrobe instead of something that is "carried". Most people find it too difficult to carry a fixed blade over 3" in length day after day.
Most ideas about carrying a knife for self defense are pure fantasy and most of the rest are illusion/delusion. If you're not willing to dedicate the time to study and train with a teacher you're best off with something simple that you won't get a lot of attention for carrying. That way you're likely to have it on the remote chance that a need arises instead of having put some sharpened canoe paddle in your underwear drawer after a month trying to sit comfortably at your desk and in the car.
Readyrod
Member
As far as I can tell according to Federal law I think you can open carry almost anything. Tho obviously I imagine you gotta keep it within reason or you will attract a lot of attention. Local laws may vary.
I'm still interested tho in what a good design would look like.
in all honesty, simply pick a knife you like the look of, and carry it.............as a tool.
if you are worried about "general self defense"........get some pepper spay, a cane, or a good umbrella......all of which are far better suited to defend ones self than a knife would be.
the more range you can put between an attacker, the better.....with a knife, youll only have 3-8" or so, which means you will need to be close to your attacker for it to be effective, which also puts you in danger of being cut/ punched...
...with a cane/ umbrella/ pepperspray, youll get several FEET.........out of the range of your attacker.
I guess the question that hasn't been asked is what will you be doing when you get back to Canada? Logger/trapper/guide allows for open carry of bigger blades. Office manager/IT admin doesn't make OC practical.
Critical characteristics are for the knife to have a good grip that won't slip when wet and has some sort of protection to keep your hand from sliding down onto the edge. The point should be fine enough for easy penetration, but not so fine as to be weak to break or bend easily. The blade doesn't have to be heavy or thick, but it shouldn't be so thin as to bend or break easily. It can be straight edged, bellied or recurved depending upon how it will be used. Bigger is better, but only so far as you can carry and use it.
These are 7"+ fighting knives -
These are 5"- knives -
Most of them are too big to carry in an office/town setting day after day.
Critical characteristics are for the knife to have a good grip that won't slip when wet and has some sort of protection to keep your hand from sliding down onto the edge. The point should be fine enough for easy penetration, but not so fine as to be weak to break or bend easily. The blade doesn't have to be heavy or thick, but it shouldn't be so thin as to bend or break easily. It can be straight edged, bellied or recurved depending upon how it will be used. Bigger is better, but only so far as you can carry and use it.
These are 7"+ fighting knives -
These are 5"- knives -
Most of them are too big to carry in an office/town setting day after day.
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Carl Levitian
member
HSO said:
That is the absolute best statement I've ever seen on the whole subject!
Truth be told, if I had to defend against a knife, I'd rather have a 12 inch piece of hickory broom stick or rattan up the sleeve of my coat.
Carl.
USAF_Vet
Member
I've never been in a knife fight, but I've been in a fight where the other guyhad a knife. I've got a nifty scar as a souvenier.
I've got a bit of knife fighting training, but I would not like to ever have to do it.
Typical knife fights end up with both people bleeding. +1 on the stick, or cane suggestion. Being in Canadia, you guys don't have CCW, right? So having a pistol is out.
this is the knife I do most of my training for:
I've got a bit of knife fighting training, but I would not like to ever have to do it.
Typical knife fights end up with both people bleeding. +1 on the stick, or cane suggestion. Being in Canadia, you guys don't have CCW, right? So having a pistol is out.
this is the knife I do most of my training for:
Loyalist Dave
Member
You need a blade that won't break during the fight, and be able to thrust as well as slash. From my experience I have seen about forty knife homicides and twice as many near homicides in the past two decades..., and all but the throat cutting executions were from thrust wounds, and the ones where the guy went down from a single wound..., were from thrusts.
The grip must prevent your hand from slipping up onto the blade during the fight, and expect that hand to be slippery with blood, yours or the opponent's. A grip that protrudes beyond the hand so that you may deliver a pommel blow is gravy (imho).
The length needs to be long enough to reach vital organs from the front of the body (most of these are located to the back of the rib cage btw).
That's about it.
YOU need to learn how to use it, and once you pick a knife, stay with it. A run-of-the-mill butcher knife in the hands of a well trained person is vastly superior to the finest custom knife in the hands of a novice. If you keep switching from style to style, you will never really know your knife well.
With the above criteria there are plenty of knives on the market to meet the criteria, none are the absolute pinnacle of the art in every man's hand, and most expensive isn't necessarily the best, or the best for you.
LD
The grip must prevent your hand from slipping up onto the blade during the fight, and expect that hand to be slippery with blood, yours or the opponent's. A grip that protrudes beyond the hand so that you may deliver a pommel blow is gravy (imho).
The length needs to be long enough to reach vital organs from the front of the body (most of these are located to the back of the rib cage btw).
That's about it.
YOU need to learn how to use it, and once you pick a knife, stay with it. A run-of-the-mill butcher knife in the hands of a well trained person is vastly superior to the finest custom knife in the hands of a novice. If you keep switching from style to style, you will never really know your knife well.
With the above criteria there are plenty of knives on the market to meet the criteria, none are the absolute pinnacle of the art in every man's hand, and most expensive isn't necessarily the best, or the best for you.
LD
I completely agree with a knife being a terribly idea for pure SD... BUT, to answer the question in my mind, I look to what the US Military would carry. Gerber MK2 or full sized Kabar type knife for instance.
It would be very uncomfortable to carry everyday in civilian life, but I am enamored by the BK7. I want to build something similar in the future.
It would be very uncomfortable to carry everyday in civilian life, but I am enamored by the BK7. I want to build something similar in the future.
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
The best knife to have, if you are in a fight to the death situation, is a bayonet with a loaded rifle attached to the back of it.
As the mod said, while you are in Japan take advantage of the training. While I was there my roommate was very into eido, I imagine that would teach you all you would need to know about carrying a sword around the house for self defense.
As the mod said, while you are in Japan take advantage of the training. While I was there my roommate was very into eido, I imagine that would teach you all you would need to know about carrying a sword around the house for self defense.
A bud of mine, a multiple tour Special Forces veteran of Vietnam, carried this small kabar brand sheath knife when on tour. He started off with bigger knives, but liked this one because he could cut bread inside K (or C?) ration cans.
He did tell me you could put a "major hurt" on someone with the smaller knife, but I got the impression it was better practice to use your firearm in combat than a knife.
He was not impressed with this special services knife. Said with the first one he had, he broke the tip cutting saw grass.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=481050&highlight=special+forces+knife
He did tell me you could put a "major hurt" on someone with the smaller knife, but I got the impression it was better practice to use your firearm in combat than a knife.
He was not impressed with this special services knife. Said with the first one he had, he broke the tip cutting saw grass.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=481050&highlight=special+forces+knife
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Gordon
Member
Once again for thrusts a 6" blade is minimum and 7+" has been considered for a LONG time as a good length. Look at the Randall "fighters" , (the flat on the rear of a spine DOES allow CAREFUL two handed power strokes which a full sharpened back edge won't allow).since WW2 to get an idea what works! I had a Randall 8" #1 when I first went to Nam in 68 and a Randall 7 .25" # 14 the second tour. I used it to defend against a bayonet thrust delivered by a 300 pound drunk, so that was a knife fight I guess.
Double edge is OK in a attack type blade but I really prefer a slim straight spine fishbelly knife about 9 or 10" long to stick pigs with. Any curve in the point area tends to "cam" away from the centerline of a hard thrust deep in a body. A sharpened false edge is ok as long as the false edge has little or no no curve to it , the spine should be straight with a slight positive included angle droop. Harpoon or big steps to a flat thick spine suck real bad!
Sub Hilts injure your fingers IMHO.Period.
1/4" blade thickness is good in a knife this size if properly flat ground to remove alot of excess. 3/16" can be very nasty on stuff shorter than 9" if done by a master.
The Randall #1 and the Randall #15 are considered the arch type for a "fighter" .
I make no bones about liking Mad Dog Knives and his Panther (10") is the nastiest "fighter" there is IMHO. I also think his 7" Voodoo Hound 3/16" is super nasty too and is feather light and all slim razor edge. I have stuck da pig and other live stock with both, much better in the real world slime than anything else I've tried in 45 years, just my bloody experiences.
http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/products/index.php?id=565
Check out the VooDoo Hound and the Coyote is a real nasty knife too! No Phancy blade types needed , AND by many savvy knife folk Mad Dog handle design is begrudgingly admired as superb in the real bloody world;
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/s...ad-Dogs-Voodoo-Hound-Bear-Cat-DSU2-and-Coyote
Here was a Stephan Fowler 11" S guard Bowie m"fighter" that any repectable sand bar duelist would give his left gonad for:
But this magnificent 13" Dagger he made for me last year was my idea of a purpose driven "fighting knife" , when they get this big and wide (but ground light as a feather!) they actually CHOP!
Double edge is OK in a attack type blade but I really prefer a slim straight spine fishbelly knife about 9 or 10" long to stick pigs with. Any curve in the point area tends to "cam" away from the centerline of a hard thrust deep in a body. A sharpened false edge is ok as long as the false edge has little or no no curve to it , the spine should be straight with a slight positive included angle droop. Harpoon or big steps to a flat thick spine suck real bad!
Sub Hilts injure your fingers IMHO.Period.
1/4" blade thickness is good in a knife this size if properly flat ground to remove alot of excess. 3/16" can be very nasty on stuff shorter than 9" if done by a master.
The Randall #1 and the Randall #15 are considered the arch type for a "fighter" .
I make no bones about liking Mad Dog Knives and his Panther (10") is the nastiest "fighter" there is IMHO. I also think his 7" Voodoo Hound 3/16" is super nasty too and is feather light and all slim razor edge. I have stuck da pig and other live stock with both, much better in the real world slime than anything else I've tried in 45 years, just my bloody experiences.
http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/products/index.php?id=565
Check out the VooDoo Hound and the Coyote is a real nasty knife too! No Phancy blade types needed , AND by many savvy knife folk Mad Dog handle design is begrudgingly admired as superb in the real bloody world;
http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/s...ad-Dogs-Voodoo-Hound-Bear-Cat-DSU2-and-Coyote
Here was a Stephan Fowler 11" S guard Bowie m"fighter" that any repectable sand bar duelist would give his left gonad for:
But this magnificent 13" Dagger he made for me last year was my idea of a purpose driven "fighting knife" , when they get this big and wide (but ground light as a feather!) they actually CHOP!
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22-rimfire
Member
Are you more interested in a folding knife or a fixed blade? Pretty basic question... What else do you want to do with it?
As mentioned above, the classic fighters are fixed blades with a 6-7" blade length. There is no way I could carry such a thing unless I was in the military such as in Iraq. They are certainly eye catching and fun to own. All you have to do is look at my pile of fixed blades (custom, semi-custom like Randall, or factory) that I almost never use for anything. The SOG Seal Pup Elite (plain edge) is a useful 5"-ish fixed blade that won't kill you on cost. It is what I often carry in the woods as a general purpose fixed blade.
For most people, something like the Kershaw Leek (folder) is plenty of knife. I like folders. The SOG XL is one I like as is a Twitch II (assisted openers), or the SOG Mini-Vulcan. Many like the Spyderco Endura. There are so many choices.
So what do I usually carry? a SAK
As mentioned above, the classic fighters are fixed blades with a 6-7" blade length. There is no way I could carry such a thing unless I was in the military such as in Iraq. They are certainly eye catching and fun to own. All you have to do is look at my pile of fixed blades (custom, semi-custom like Randall, or factory) that I almost never use for anything. The SOG Seal Pup Elite (plain edge) is a useful 5"-ish fixed blade that won't kill you on cost. It is what I often carry in the woods as a general purpose fixed blade.
For most people, something like the Kershaw Leek (folder) is plenty of knife. I like folders. The SOG XL is one I like as is a Twitch II (assisted openers), or the SOG Mini-Vulcan. Many like the Spyderco Endura. There are so many choices.
So what do I usually carry? a SAK
Readyrod
Member
Thanks for the info, esp Gordon. That's what I'm looking for. Those are beautiful knives. I can't afford the Randals or Mad Dogs tho. Is there a cheaper alternative. How about the Ka Bars. I can get a good deal on a Buck 119 but I have a feeling that it would not fit the bill. Here in Japan you can't have double edged knives.
How wide should a fighting blade be?
BTW I had a break at work today and went to Kapabashi , it's near the office. It's the kitchen supply street in Tokyo. I went on a grand tour of the knife shops and saw some beauties. Must have seen hundreds of knives. It was very cool.
thanks again
RR
How wide should a fighting blade be?
BTW I had a break at work today and went to Kapabashi , it's near the office. It's the kitchen supply street in Tokyo. I went on a grand tour of the knife shops and saw some beauties. Must have seen hundreds of knives. It was very cool.
thanks again
RR
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the Kabar is a decent knife and has been considered the "standard" fighting knife for some time.....
i have the Buck 119 and i love it.......similar blade design to the USMC Kabar.....i believe its a hair smaller though......
the thing is, there really is not standard for fighting knives......they are what you make them......
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