Fighting knife characteristics

[Bobson]

+1 on the KABAR. The standard military issue one might be a bit large for your intended purpose of self-defense (carrying it concealed would be an issue), but KABAR makes outstanding products and they're reasonably priced. I'd look for something similar to the military issue though. Something that will serve equally well for stabbing/thrusting, cutting, and with sharp ridges on one side for tearing.

It's going to create some fairly traumatic wounds, but if you're at the point of brandishing a knife in a self-defense situation, your attacker's safety isn't your concern anyway. Here's what I'd suggest:

https://www.kabar.com/product/produ...Id=1,3,7,8,9&categoryName=All-Purpose/Utility

I'd also strongly suggest a quality class on how to defend yourself with a knife. If you attempt to defend yourself with a knife and you aren't properly trained on how to use it, there's a high probability that it will be taken away and used against you.

 

[Readyrod]

I'm looking at the KABARS. I'm thinking of getting a Sog Jungle fusion too as a camp knife.

 

[lemaymiami]

That pic of the Ek knife takes me back. I actually met Mr. Ek some years ago in a rundown storefront down here in paradise. He had a number of old blades in rough condition standing up in a container for sale and I didn't realize their significance until some years later.... Wish I'd bought them all.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I've worn a KA-BAR TDI daily for about 3 years now.

I think it's a fine defensive knife.

I've got bigger knives, but the TDI IMO is the most natural.

I'm 6'01" tall and about 190lbs, and the larger knives seem to stress my wrist a bit too much. I personally feel like I have a lot more leverage over a 3-5 inch blade.

The curve and grip of the TDI gives me confidence in my ability to retain it, and maintain my grip while using it. Plus it's fixed blade is very rigid and it deploys instantly.

I carry my TDI on my weak side, behind my magazine pouch.

http://youtu.be/6ZivRcSnPyw

 

[JMusic]

I know some decent knife fighters and they all recommended a defensive cane or stick, just as HSO has stated. The longer the weapon the better range of defense or offense. I carry a good folder, a cane, and a handgun.

 

[Reasoned1]

Buck 119's are nice hunting knifes, but they have a weak tip that easily breaks off--like mine did. I'm not so sure I'd trust the hollow-ground blade or the slippery handle either. Go with a proven performer--Ka-Bar 7".

 

[Readyrod]

I've worn a KA-BAR TDI daily for about 3 years now

I checked the video, looks good, thanks for the tip. I assume that it is a slashing knife?

Buck 119's are nice hunting knifes, but they have a weak tip that easily breaks off--like mine did. I'm not so sure I'd trust the hollow-ground blade or the slippery handle either.

I kinda figured as much. Thanks.

I know some decent knife fighters and they all recommended a defensive cane or stick, just as HSO has stated. The longer the weapon the better range of defense or offense. I carry a good folder, a cane, and a handgun.

I know the cane is better and I will get one but I want a knife too.

 

[conw]

The tdi actually is a great knife. I don't rely on slashing whatsoever in my defensive knife use MO. I would trust it in forward or reverse grip. in fof training (they do make a trainer too, another huge plus) I sparred with a guy carrying it centerline and he was VERY hard to prevent from accessing it.

I also recommend looking into the emerson la griffe and cold steel's mid sized push knife.

Smaller FBs are much more sensible for self defense in the real world. A big honkin knife made for dueling is unlikely to even be carried let alone accessed in an attack where you are the prospective victim.

If your budget is a few bills look into offerings by Shivworks and Ban Tang.

 

[dvcrsn]

To Readyrod--you might want to check out Cold Steel's African walking stick--ca 37 inches long with a knob on top that will fill your hands nicely, also look at their Kobun (I know it only has a 5 inch blade--but strike HARD at your opponent's head with the stick and use the knife to gut the man--CS has several small fixed blades (4 to 6 inch blades) that are $30 or less that would work well as a main gauche to a stout stick

 

[BRad704]

I find some bit of humor, in the fact that this thread is still going...

 

[Readyrod]

I find some bit of humor, in the fact that this thread is still going...

Gotta hang in there if ya wanta get anywhere.
Besides it is an honest endeavor. I did find out about the TDI didn't I?
As for a cane I'll get a stock cane whenever I get near an agriculture store.

 

[conw]

I completely agree with a knife being a terribly idea for pure SD.

I don't get this statement. If it were "I think purposefully choosing to only carry a knife, when better options are available, and then choosing purposefully engage in violence, is not wise," it would be a perfectly reasonable statement.

But there are a lot of nebulous thoughts about knives being "bad" for self-defense...what is pure self-defense? Why is a knife bad for it? Where for example has anyone ever suggested a knife should be the only option one has? I don't see anyone saying that. I think that someone who has the ability to carry a gun is very wise to carry a knife, because a knife is much easier to access and use in certain small spaces. Like 2 guys right on top of you. It is certainly much easier to use with minimal training than a handgun in small spaces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN7cbMxGMLs

That whole video is good but check out the scene at 1:00. That is the magical handgun, presumably so much better than the knife for SD, and because it's being misapplied it doesn't work at all. When knife SD discussions come up on this forum people act like the handgun magically works great in self-defense, while the knife "sucks" because presumably it doesn't enact a force field and keep your opponent at 5 yards. There IS NO SUCH THING as a standoff weapon if you are facing a determined opponent. Even if you shoot them with a handgun you better have some close quarter skills. Operative word, skills.

You can train someone to tear a bad guy up with a knife in one day.* If they have some grappling/boxing/whatever skills that include footwork, zoning, movement, positional dominance, then they will have everything they need to use a knife in a desperate situation. A gun takes much more training. And I am not saying one should choose between a knife or gun...I'm saying they are BOTH indispensable tools for self-defense, and it's foolish to compare them and choose one when they are so different.

*Now I know we can get into discussions of blood loss, vs CNS stops, vs psychological stops, but that is either/or thinking. Remember, I am not saying a knife is better than a gun, or even preferred, just that it's another option. And in SD it's great to have tools and skills that work, even if they aren't perfect.

BRad, I'm not trying to attack you personally or anything. No hard feelings. I just felt like your post really summed up a lot of the internet lore that I can't agree with, re knives, so I replied to you.

 

[PolymathPioneer]

Emerson CQC7 Folder Knives

I have tried several, yet my vote is for the Emerson CQC7 (if not already suggested here in this thread). I suggest ordering direct from Emerson since the CQC7 is much copied by lower quality overseas manufacturers. Here is the URL: http://www.emersonknives.com/ekCQC7b_BTS.php The link is to a conventional CQC7 without the "wave."

 

[glistam]

I get what you mean conwict. I think remarks like that were inspired by frustration over scores of well-meaning people who think knives are all they need, yet they are untrained and have no real knowledge of self-defense, including the legal side of it. I have met uncountable people in my life (usually either women or young men/boys) with no training whatsoever (no hand-to-hand, no weapon, no legal common sense) who choose to carry a small knife as their sole means of self-defense and not to carry other available options nor pursue any SD training. I don't know where they get ideas like that, but they always pass up on far better options like OC or even some simple martial arts training. And I know of at least two cases in my state where this kind of thinking landed the knife-carrier in prison on second degree murder.

 

[Rail Driver]

laws and tactics aside, if I'm stuck in a situation where I have no other alternative but to fight with a knife, I want it to be as big and stout as I can wield adequately. I keep a Colt Jungle Commander bowie (9" blade, about 3/16" thick maybe more, full tang) in a handy spot as a "just in case" tool.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I find some bit of humor, in the fact that this thread is still going...

Hey, I'm still reading it and still finding it interesting.

lpl

 

[rbernie]

Absolutely. In addition to the compilation of notions assembled in post #66, I found this tidbit well worth repeating:

point aligned with axis of a full sized grip for thrusting for vitals

From a mechanical perspective, this makes perfect sense for a knife to be used for thrusting.

 

[kBob]

I think the most effective weapon is a trained brain and experienced body and that the type pf knife is not nearly as important.

That said sure it is nice to have the "best" tool on hand....but I have had to use a pair of slip joint pliers to wring off a nut with more than once and used the back of a pair of vise grips to drive a fence staple or two.

I like what several have said about training and thinking around a 4 inch or less blade as that is what you are likely to have. JShirley mentioned the Army rules and in the seventies they got expressed as a blade that is not longer than your palm is wide. An MP stopping a GI might take his knife and so check it. It happened to me also had an officer do the same. Would I rather have had a Randall #1 7.5 inch blade while being accosted down town? You betcha, but getting caught with it and busted was more likely.

I frequently split the difference and carried a sheath knife that was the German Army issue at the time. About a six inch single edge that buddies called my "Kraut Butterknife" I would attach the sheath to my belt and stuff the sheath into my front right pants pocket. As my unit wore its "shirt" blouse out and a pistol belt (CO wanted us to look different from the support troops around us) this covered the knife quite well. That said I got to make E-3/PFC a second time because I had this knife (yep Article -15 UCMJ, one pay grade, one third pay for three months, and 7&7 seven days restricted to barracks and seven days extra duty) Took me the better part of a week to replace the knife (yes managed to do so while still on restrictions) and as we went back out to the field no one said spit .... I hated garrison duty, except for the time off and away.

As far as brandishing to get bad guys attention and make them consider being somewhere else....once did a good job of that by breaking a beer bottle on a steam heat radiator and scramming pretty well. Lucked out and got a good long shard for them all to see.

Was once in a situation while on "Courtesy Patrol" with another GI and two German Polizei and encountered about ten guys with knives. What beat those knives was an MP-5 smg.

Carrying a big honking knife in some places can be a more serious crime than carrying a gun. WHen I was in my twenties for instance carrying a concealed firearm in Florida was then a misdemeanor, but carrying a "dirk" concealed was a felony....go figure.

IN japan I think carrying an ugly expression on your face is a serious crime so be careful about "fighting knives"

Think situational awareness, training, and attitude rather than magic weapons.

-kBob

 

[Baba Louie]

In Japan?
http://www.japaneseknifedirect.com/AboutSeki.html

Think elegant shiv...
http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=12.041.15&dept_id=13220

Take some time, find a nice small fixed blade... legal length of course, carry it. Maybe a folder. Open packages, letters, mail, cut stuff that needs to be cut. But have a knife or three on you, near you, with your stuff, handy... you get the idea. Maybe a sharpener or two nearby as well.

Avoid knife fights.

Get a cane or walking stick. Maybe a small knife or two for your pockets or belt. (no maybe about it, you should already have them)

The Japanese make some excellent blades. While you're there and all that...

..but if convicts can create tools and implements of mayhem, death and destruction out of razor blades melted into toothbrush handles and/or sharpen a spoon against a concrete floor... well, you get the idea, as others have said, it's the software not the hardware (where have I heard that before?)

 

[mdauben]

I also recommend looking into the emerson la griffe and cold steel's mid sized push knife.

FWIW, if I had to use a knife to defend myself, my Cold Steel Safekeeper II would probably be one of my first choices. The t-handle feels very secure in my hand and the knife lends itself to very natural attacks.

The problem is, both two edged knives and push knives are widely banned by law from any sort of carry. If I had to CC a knife for protection, I would probably chose one that was both legal in my juristiction and had at least a nominal utility use. Something like a Spyderco Endura or other medium sized, one-hand opening knife.

Its harder to explain that the 6 inch F-S dagger or 7 inch Ka-Bar bowie you have hidden under your shirt is for opening envelopes or trimming your nails.

Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant kendo for using a cane.

I would think a Cane is a very good "discrete" weapon for self defence. If you really wanted to use one, there are actual cane fighting styles available, rather than trying to adapt Japanese Kendo (which is a very limited style of sword fighting to begin with) to the job. Aikido and some Katate styles include training with a "jo" (4-foot stick), while some Korean and Chinese arts include training with an actual crooked cane.

While I have less knowledge about European fighting arts, I heard that some traditional Savate salle's also train with a cane.

 

[conw]

The problem is, both two edged knives and push knives are widely banned by law from any sort of carry. If I had to CC a knife for protection, I would probably chose one that was both legal in my juristiction and had at least a nominal utility use. Something like a Spyderco Endura or other medium sized, one-hand opening knife.

Fair enough regarding the legality.

The best folding knife I have ever come across for that purpose is the Spyderco P'Kal which is the brainchild of the same guy as the Shivworks Clinch Pick. The small waved Delica is also good with practice and set up to be carried "pikal style." Sometimes in NPEs I carry a P'kal strong side and a waved Delica weak side.

If a 3" blade folding knife is legal where you are, it is legal. However, it is (to me) much harder to access than a small FB carried OWB centerline, in some positions. Standing, pretty much it's just as easy/reliable if practiced. Seated, far less so. On the ground, it really depends on positioning of you and your adversary.

Everyone talks about 6-7" bladed knives for fighting but unless you are fast/skilled enough to keep a hypothetical determined attacker at bay and stop him by using the knife before he closes distance I think those knives give up every single fighting advantage they have, when you are at close distances. If you are using the tool for its intended purpose on the ground, in a clinch, in a jumbled up tangle, your big old knife just became really hard to use rapidly, repeatedly, and safely (where your safety is concerned that is). Every additional inch past say 2-3" of blade is another inch you have to move your elbow back to rethrust...not happening if you are cornered or grounded.

 

[Readyrod]

I completely agree with a knife being a terribly idea for pure SD

Like everything it is part of a toolkit. You can't only depend on the one perfect defense cause it may not be there or it may be the wrong thing when you need it.

As far as brandishing to get bad guys attention and make them consider being somewhere else

I worked with a guy once who was a bit of a thug (he was a bouncer and did martial arts) and he said it worked against him.

Get a cane or walking stick

I have one of those hardwood kendo sticks. Like I said I'll get a cane when the opportunity presents itself. Thing is I use my bike a lot and a cane isn't practical. That said it is so safe here in Japan that I prob don't need it.

 

[Readyrod]

Sorry another earthquake. What a pia.

The problem is, both two edged knives and push knives are widely banned by law from any sort of carry

Two edged are banned in Japan and push knives are banned in Canada.

Its harder to explain that the 6 inch F-S dagger or 7 inch Ka-Bar bowie you have hidden under your shirt is for opening envelopes or trimming your nails.

I would think a Cane is a very good "discrete" weapon for self defence.

Yea discrete, discrete is good, if it isn't the cops it's other people. I got a bad comment once for my pocket knife. That TDI looks like a good one if it's legal where you live but it may be hard to explain as for another use.
Anyways I now have a good idea of that a fighting knife should look like whether I get one or not so that's good.

 

[mdauben]

The best folding knife I have ever come across for that purpose is the Spyderco P'Kal which is the brainchild of the same guy as the Shivworks Clinch Pick.

I've admired the P'Kal and seen several videos of trained users demonstrating the proper technique. It appears to have the potential to be a devastating close-in weapon. My only reservation is that proper technique with the P'Kal seems somewhat more "un-intuitive" than a "normal" blade. In other words, it could be a great choice for a trained practitioner but perhaps not for a newbie. Of course proper training makes using any blade more effective.

 

[Readyrod]

Think elegant shiv...
http://japanwoodworker.com/product.a...&dept_id=13220

I see these all over the place. I'm hoping to find one for cheap at a second hand store.