Fill it to the rim?

[aprayinbear]

OK.... one last "new guy" question. I've now shot about 50 or so rounds from my pietta 1858. For the most part, everything has gone smooth as silk (thanks to you guys.) Now I'm interested in maximizing accuracy. I took a sandbag to the range today and found that my revolver shot pretty much right-on at 20 yards. After paying attention to my shooting technique, I was able to shoot 5 shot offhand groups of about 3"-4" at that range.

I tried shooting both 21 and 25 1/2 grain loads and 21 grains seemed to be a little more accurate. I'm shooting .454 balls. But here's my question.... After loading powder, wad and ball, there is still a lot of space between the ball and the top of the cylinder. I think I will increase accuracy a bit if I bring the ball almost level with the cylinder top. I like using the lubed wads because they help my see which chambers I have already loaded. Could I simply add 15 or 20 grains of corn meal to take up the extra space? If so, would the corn meal go after the powder or after the wad?

All suggestions welcome

 

[Macmac]

I used to shoot six guns a lot more than I seem to find time now, and had 2 flasks one for powder and one for filler. I used a hot ceral but can't recall which one. Then a wad went over that .... The filler just went on top of the powder in my case.

 

[Mike OTDP]

Try 15-20 grains of 3F, with Cream of Wheat as a filler. Corn meal compacts too much. No need for a wad if you use filler, but put a dab of lube on the bullet after loading.

 

[Acorn Mush]

...Cream of Wheat as a filler.

If using Cream of Wheat as a filler, be sure to leave about 3/8" of space between the filler and the chamber mouth, otherwise you may not get your ball seated properly. CoW doesn't compress nearly as much as corn meal.

I have a dedicated flask with a calibrated spout for dispensing Cream of Wheat. Makes it easy to leave the necessary space for the ball as mentioned above.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

I never been fond a shootin' cereals or Puff-Lon black granular filler that's made to use as a filler...for me accuracy is less than what i shoot with 28gr a Dry Ball, or lube pill added on top of the powder under the ball. I eat the filler before I go shootin' :O) (levity)

SG

 

[BHP FAN]

no filler is nessesary.I know,it ''looks wierd'' to someone who may be more used to cartridge revolvers,but they never used Cream of Wheat at Gettysburg,and you don't need to, either.

 

[Voodoochile]

In my target load for 2 of my Remington copies I only use 22gr. FFFG & a wad over the powder then a 142gr. .457 ball, shoots great & no filler for me either as long as the loading assembly can seat the ball onto the wad & powder it's good.

 

[mykeal]

they never used Cream of Wheat at Gettysburg,and you don't need to, either.

Massed fire, as opposed to accuracy, was the tactical goal during the Civil War. They didn't use penicillin either, so I suppose we don't need to.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I'm in the 'no filler' camp. Is a deep seated round ball not as accurate as one seated right at the mouth? I haven't seen any testing that shows that one way or the other.
The ball is a tight fit in the chamber, I really don't see any difference other than a deep seated ball well be moving slightly faster when it enters the forcing cone.
It's sop to shoot shorter bullets in center fire revolvers. I shoot 38spl in 357, that's .100 more distance. A 38spl in my 357 super mag is close to a quarter inch, and the center fire bullets are a loose fit in the chambers.
As a friend would say "I think it's a bunch of hooey"!
Either way seems to work, take your pick.

 

[jimrbto]

I have been shooting .36's for about 40 years, mostly just plinking,and have never used a filler.
Will someone here please explain why, AND PROVE IT, a filler should be used?
I keep seeing this and never see a real explanation of why.
Thanx, Jim

 

[mykeal]

Why is because SOME PEOPLE claim that it is more accurate to have the ball seated close to the forcing cone. They claim the PROOF is in their targets: smaller groups with filler than without.

I've tried it, and it did not surprise me to see little if any difference. Why? Because I'm not a good pistol shooter. It does not surprise me to find out that I'm not a good enough shooter to take advantage of a small increase in accuracy. If I had a steadier hold, or better vision, or more money in the bank it might be better.

Bottom line: it didn't help me. That does not mean it doesn't help others, and if there are people who want to take the time to include the filler in their loading, and if they're good enough shooters to take advantage of it, fine, more power to them. The fact that it didn't help me did not make me say the effect doesn't exist; it just says I don't need to invest the time.

 

[Pulp]

If the rammer will seat the ball over the powder with some compression then filler is not needed. If it gives you more confidence, then use it. It's not going to hurt anything, and some folks say it cuts down on fouling.
Now if you wanted to shoot a 20 grain load in a Walker, then yes you're gonna need filler.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

I really don't mind at all what anybody else shoots out of their BP Revs. I know what works best for me and share my experiances, strengths, and hopes with others that wanna know. I jus' shoot with lube pills ball down
on powder no matter where the ball sits, or Dry Ball down atop the powder whether 15gr of fffg or 30gr ffg BP...
I tried the best filler there is Puff-Lon in a Colt Navy'51 .36, Colt Army 1860 .44, Remington '58 Navy .36, & a Remington '58 .44.....@ 10yd. Dry ball good group Avg. 4" centers, Lube Pills 3" centers, Puff-Lon scattered 6" centers low.
Those were my findings and I am a pretty good Pistolaro Shootist...that's why I don't use fillers and use lube pills or go Dry.

Depth of a ball seated in a cylinder with less powder is proportional to increased velocity due to longer distance traveled to end of muzzle:to a greater amount of powder with a ball seated at the end of a cylinder chamber. Which is more accurate?
Rhetorical question you know the answer...

 

[English Bob]

I use to be in the fill 'er up camp, but have recently gone to adding cream of wheat filler and have noticed better accuracy. I kinda 'inherited' the load when I bought the gun so after trying various loads the one I have stuck with involved the filler.

I always thought that the lower loads were used for target work as they are easier to control and with the reduction in velocity were generally more accurate.

I think it's like many of these things, it's what works for you which is often the best way of loading.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Bob, basically that's what I said in the Proportional Statement a:b... Of course the lighter 15gr charge has less velocity than the greater 30gr charge. But the recessed ball down in the chamber w/o filler is more accurate than the 30gr charge at the top of the chamber.
In theory I said the longer distance of the chamber with the deep seated ball would increase the muzzle velocity compared to a ball it with filler and 15gr of Black Powder.
Half serious half jesting...a very minute differance in velocity i am sure... :O)

SG

 

[English Bob]

Just joining in you understand, looks like we are very much on the same wavelength on this one.

My wife shoots a Uberti 1858 Remy, she used filler in that originally but has gone back to just bp and a smear of lube over the ball, it just seems to shoot better like that. She was always getting folks bitching because a small amount of the cream of wheat use to get blown out sideways and rattle them.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

LoL! With that thought in Mind, I'm gonna try 20gr BP and 20gr of white flour to get a visual on where the filler goes... wanna spot for me off to the side? :O)

SG

 

[English Bob]

Sure, why not it's all shootin' in my book.

Don't they use bags of flour in ceremonial cannons to get more of an effect...seem to remember reading that somewhere.

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Yes I've hear'd that...I remember something on powdered Chalk also... in canisters fired from cannons.
One of the Club members brought out a mortar/cannon he built, glowplug ignitor dry cell battery powered, like a gas powder R/C Airplane...would handle 400gr of fg black powder...basically a pound. Smooth bored to fire beer cans... filled with mixed not powdered cement... the last shot we fired that day dissapeared over 1500meters away over a mountain top with a full charge of 400gr and a Bud Light filled with the substancial material...a CHP Car was driving up and down the Angeles Forest Highway 2 some 3000 meters away and down about 500ft...that's when we put the Beer can cannon away...
True story...

SG

 

[bobby n.]

try grinding corn cobs (dried) down into a powder, can be used as filler, and fire starter

 

[jimrbto]

My reason for posting was that for years I have read "experts" writings in which they claim that - for safety reasons the ball MUST be loaded out to the mouth of the cylinder. Fortunately I was shooting bp long before I read any of this and just never believed it or did it.
Jim

 

[ArmedBear]

I used to do all that crap.

Bugs got in my flash of Cream of Wheat. I spent 10 cents a round on wads. I have a bunch of measuring spouts.

In the words of an old friend of mine who reminds me of Elmer Keith: IT'S ALL BULLSH*T.

Now I'm back to shooting about 24 grains of Pyrodex (or whatever a standard Remington flask spits out), a .454 ball and some Crisco glopped over it to soften fouling and seal the chambers.

You know what? It loads faster, costs less, and as long as I load it consistently, it shoots just as well, or better, that all the other crap. Last time I shot my Remmie, I got bored. After I got "warmed up", every shot hit the gong at 50 yards or so. Keep it simple; the gun will work fine.

The filler flies out the muzzle, BTW. So does everything else besides the cap. That's why it's not still in the gun when you take it home and clean it.

Well, actually, a little filler ends up stuck in the grease on the pin and/or lever, too.

My mantra: IT'S ALL BULLSH*T!

 

[AJumbo]

Back when I just HAD to verify everything that Sam Fadala wrote, I tested this idea in my Old Army. Seems like the results were like this:

-27gr. 3F, filler to move ball to mouth of cylinder, most accurate load.
-27gr. 3F, no filler, ball well below mouth of cylinder, marginally less accurate.
-all the 3F I could cram behind the ball, least accurate, most fun. The difference in accuracy from best to worst 3/8" in 30 yards- big whoop.The least accurate load is what I hunt with. The loads without filler didn't require me to mess with carrying, using or buying filler. No difference noted between corn meal or Cream of Wheat.
All loads used a swaged .457 ball and Bore Butter over the chamber mouths.