Finally! Ruger has a 357 mag bolt rifle!

[Eb1]

Indiana already had a good rifle to use for their pistol caliber. The Marlin lever gun.

I think it is a good addition to the lineup for Ruger. I still think it should come with a 15 or 20 round magazine.

 

[Dobe]

Perhaps they will.

 

[LibShooter]

For some reason I REALLY want a .357 rifle... even though I don't have a handgun in that caliber.

But I don't think this is it. I want a cheapish ammo (.38) plinker, that can do some service for home defense. A five round bolter is not that. I guess it will be a lever action, after all.

What I really want is a 10/22 styled auto in a .357 class cartridge. Somebody needs to make an updated M1 Carbine.

Ruger has a few staple firearms that keep them in business (10/22, M77, No.1, single-six, MK I/II/III, P85, Blackhawk, Redhawk, SP-101, GP-100).

That's kind of like saying, "Other than the Big Mac and the Quarter Pounder, what has McDonald's come up with? A couple of those Ruger staples may sell more than every other gun in their classes, combined. When you sell a billion burgers you can take a chances on some iffy products. Ruger can, too. They may have a McRib type hit, or a McDLT failure.

 

[lizziedog1]

Re:Mach IV Shooter

I am jealous of you. I wish I had the time to test and compare all the different firearms that you have.

How many rounds do you fire in your testing before you conclude what is good and what sucks?

 

[Kendal Black]

Indiana already had a good rifle to use for their pistol caliber. The Marlin lever gun.

I think it is a good addition to the lineup for Ruger. I still think it should come with a 15 or 20 round magazine.

Thing is it's a rotary magazine, trying to build on the success they had with the 10/22, and it takes substantial R&D to actually make an extended 10/22 mag that works half the time.

I think the Deerfield (a sort of M1 carbiney-looking thing with four rounds on board) would have worked for them if there were bigger magazines. But it was a rotary, and no aftermarket clips were forthcoming.

Hmm. Dead end in engineering? Say that four is four, and ever more shall be it so.

 

[ECVMatt]

I have quite a few extended 10/22 mags and they work great. I don't see why the same principal could be applied to this rifle. It kind of cracks me up that people complained about the Ruger GSR because the mag extended beyond the stock, now people are made because the magazine is flush with the stock. I don't have a problem with 5 round magazines in a handy little carbine. I guess that is why we live in America, so we have the freedom to choose.

 

[Dobe]

Thing is it's a rotary magazine, trying to build on the success they had with the 10/22, and it takes substantial R&D to actually make an extended 10/22 mag that works half the time.

Ruger current makes a 25 round mag for the 10/22. http://shopruger.com/10_22-BX-25-MAGAZINE/productinfo/90361/

 

[Balrog]

Now if they had made it for the .357 Max that would of been nice.

Yes, producing a rifle in an obscure caliber is a guarantee for a best seller. I bet there are at least a dozen people that shoot 357 max regularly, and at least 2 of them would probably buy the rifle.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Yes, producing a rifle in an obscure caliber is a guarantee for a best seller. I bet there are at least a dozen people that shoot 357 max regularly, and at least 2 of them would probably buy the rifle.

You do realize that 357 max can fire magnums and 38's too?

But the action is far far too short for that anyway.

Maybe we'll see a 45lc and a 30 carbine on this platform too.


Tapatalk post via IPhone.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I thought uberti stuff was more for Cowboy action shooting, and really couldn't withstand hot hunting loads. Thought the same went for cimmeron revolvers. And my understanding of the ruger single action stuff was that they were built like tanks, and made for the heavy stuff.

The Uberti's can handle "warm" loads, which is all the new Vaquero can take. The Uberti Callahan, though, is a heavy frame SAA, and can take full house .44's.

I've personally shot two S&W revolvers until they were out of time. My one friend's Colt Python is also currently out of time. I've never seen or heard of any Ruger getting out of time. IMO, they're the most durable and tough DA revolver available - and they don't have those stupid freaking lawyer safeties.

Which model S&W? Because that was really only ever a problem with the 27 if used heavily in rapid fire, on account of the huge mass of an N frame cylinder with little .357 holes in it. Since Ruger's lock system is so very similar, you'd end up with the same kind of problem in the rare Redhawk .357. Try rapid DA firing with a SRH. You can just feel that thing battering the stop.

As for the lawyer lock, I'm no fan, and don't own any. That said, Ruger printing the owner's manual on the barrel is hardly any better. The loaded chamber indicators on their auto's are about the most obtrusive eyesore one can imagine, as well.

A couple of those Ruger staples may sell more than every other gun in their classes, combined

Really? Which ones?

I am jealous of you. I wish I had the time to test and compare all the different firearms that you have.How many rounds do you fire in your testing before you conclude what is good and what sucks?

I don't have as much time now, with twin daughters and a business to run, but for a decade, I was making really good money and had nothing better to do with it than buy guns and tinker with hot rods.

How many rounds? As many as needed. But since reliability isn't the comparison point for any of them, I think round count is irrelevant. One needn't even fire a round to deterine that a 686 has a nicer action than a GP100, or that a CZ-75 is better balanced and smoother than a P85, that a Beretta Silver Pigeon is a much more svelte and naturally pointing O/U than the Red Label.

Loading mags is no slower than loading a tube through a loading gate.

Generally speaking, yes. But Ruger's rotary magazines are definitely an exception to the rule. Slow to load, taxing on the thumb, and have to rock into place in such a way and with such preload that rapid changes aren't all that easily accomplished.

ETA:

Anyone who lives nearby and has a 77/44 or buys a 77/357, I'd gladly take on a challenge for money to see who can get through a box of ammo faster, me with a gate-loaded Marlin Levergun, you with the rotary-magazine Ruger. Don't need to do the 10/22 vs. Tube fed auto challenge; Already done it. Even with 2 mags for the Ruger, the tube fed Marlin 60 and Remington 552 won hands-down. The only way the Ruger can get through a few boxes faster is with several mags and one person shooting, 2 loading.

 

[lizziedog1]

Re:Mach IV Shooter

But since reliability isn't the comparison point for any of them, I think round count is irrelevant.

Why not? I too prefer guns with certain looks and feels. But, a good looking gun with reliability issues stays at gun store as far as I am concerned.

Time for a laugh.

I have a Hi Point in 380 ACP. It is not exactly a "svelte." It has the look and feel of a brick. It makes Glocks look good. But, the pistol is utterly reliable and pretty accurate.

 

[Dobe]

Generally speaking, yes. But Ruger's rotary magazines are definitely an exception to the rule. Slow to load, taxing on the thumb, and have to rock into place in such a way and with such preload that rapid changes aren't all that easily accomplished.

I can't think of any gun slower to load or unload than the traditional lever gun.

Perhaps we should start altering the M4s to take a tube and loading gate, instead of a mag. If I were to take you up on that bet, I'd have enough mags to get through the entire box. Also, while a Marlin 60 indeed has a tube, it doesn't have a loading gate. A loading gate forces the person loading to contend with an ever more compressing spring one round at a time.

Nevertheless, as to which platform can shoot the faster, that is not why I would purchase either of the two. Interesting banter, for a while, but it's not of any real importance in my buying strategy.

 

[ECVMatt]

"ETA:

Anyone who lives nearby and has a 77/44 or buys a 77/357, I'd gladly take on a challenge for money to see who can get through a box of ammo faster, me with a gate-loaded Marlin Levergun, you with the rotary-magazine Ruger. Don't need to do the 10/22 vs. Tube fed auto challenge; Already done it. Even with 2 mags for the Ruger, the tube fed Marlin 60 and Remington 552 won hands-down. The only way the Ruger can get through a few boxes faster is with several mags and one person shooting, 2 loading."

I am just wondering why you would rule out the use of mulitple magazines. Isn't that the purpose of a magazine fed rifle? How many folks do you know that have an AR with only one magazine. Or a 1911, Glock, M&P, AK, etc... It just seem a bit slanted to me. I am sure I could beat up Mike Tyson if I insisted his arms were tied behind his back.

I like leverguns too, but have mulitple magazines for all my rifles/pistols that use them.

I am also curios why no one has brought up the dreaded "Marlin Jam":

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/marlin94fix.html

It is well documented and occurs with regularity. The Marlin .357's aren't perfect either.

Or the recent lack of quality control coming from Marlin after the move:

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php?board=179.0

I guess if we are honest, all makes and models have pluses and minuses. Each buyer has to figure out what works best for them and then make an educated purchase. Marlin's issues are killing me right now, because I am a big fan of their leverguns, but I wouldn't currently buy one.

Just some additional thoughts for perspective.

 

[MachIVshooter]

If I were to take you up on that bet, I'd have enough mags to get through the entire box.

This is a concession that to have a ROF faster than the Marlin (A less expensive gun to begin with) through a brick of ammo, you'd need at least $200 worth of extra mags (using the cheapest 50 rounders).

And in my experience with the 10/22 I've owned, most of the higher capacity mags create serious reliability issues.

I can't think of any gun slower to load or unload than the traditional lever gun.

Ummm, a bolt gun with fixed floor plate?

Once again, I'll shove 5 rounds into my 1894 before you can push them into that rotary mag and insert the thing. And if we're talking truly unloading, I bet I can shuck 5 live rounds through my 1984 quicker than anyone could drop the mag in a 97/44 and push the 5 rounds out of it.

Perhaps we should start altering the M4s to take a tube and loading gate, instead of a mag.

Did you miss the part where I said Ruger's rotary magazine?

Most magazines are much faster to load than Ruger rotary type. You don't even have to use your thumb with AR mags if you have a hard, flat surface available. One can load a 30 round AR mag in 10-15 seconds.

You guy's seem to think that I'm saying the 10/22 (and other Rugers) are bad guns. I'm not. What I am saying is that they aren't the apex in any category where there are real competitors. I would bet real money that if you laid some example Ruger guns out with the ones I've comapred them to, the extreme majority of people who aren't biased one way or the other would end up choosing the other gun after looking at and handling them.

I probably own (8) or at least have owned (19) more Ruger's than most of you who are arguing with me, and as mentioned, there are but a few variants of certain models that I haven't personally fired. Ruger's problem now more than ever is that they have come to believe they can command top tier pricing on middle of the road guns. $650+ for a standard mini? Are you kidding me? The P-series are still a bargain......until you consider the available police trade-in guns like the 5906 that can be had for the same kind of money. The Red Label has serious competition from better guns (like the Beretta 686 and Browning Citori) in the $1,500-ish price range.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I am just wondering why you would rule out the use of mulitple magazines. Isn't that the purpose of a magazine fed rifle? How many folks do you know that have an AR with only one magazine. Or a 1911, Glock, M&P, AK, etc... It just seem a bit slanted to me. I am sure I could beat up Mike Tyson if I insisted his arms were tied behind his back.

There are variables that can tilt the balance either way. An apples to apples comparison is two completely unloaded guns. Or, if you prefer, having to use them as purchased brand new without accessories.

Look at it the other way: Would it be a fair competition if the 10/22 had only it's factory mag and the guy shooting the Marlin or other tube-fed gun had 3 dozen cartridge tubes ready to go?

I am also curios why no one has brought up the dreaded "Marlin Jam": It is well documented and occurs with regularity. The Marlin .357's aren't perfect either.

Or the recent lack of quality control coming from Marlin after the move

You might have a point if Ruger had a .357 lever gun to compare against the Marlin. However, the comparison between the 1894 and 77/357 has been speed and speed alone. The only other aspect we can really compare of such very different designs is accuracy, which remains purely speculative until the Ruger's are out in sufficient quantity to earn a deserved reputation in that regard.

In the spirit of reliability, though, as stated by Ruger themselves, the 77/357 has a good chance of experiencing jams if used with .38 special ammo.

 

[ECVMatt]

MachIV,

I agree with what you are saying and probably wouldn't have even commented if you hadn't unilaterally declared that most if not all Ruger products "Suck". They simply don't. I worked in a gun store for many years while in college and sold thousands of guns. Rugers for the most part come back far less for repair than any other maker. When I was selling guns in the mid 90's, we had to stop selling Colt 1911's because so many would function from the factory. This was a hard call for us, because we were a Colt Master Dealer, but in the end they were letting the customers down. And remember the Colt All American 2000?? How about the original S&W Sigma's with the trigger that break in half?

My point is that a blanket statement and all Ruger's Suck is probably going to draw some fire.

I am going to replace my Marlin 1894 with a Ruger 77/357. I will report on it here and tell you if I made a good choice.

 

[Dobe]

Buying a .357 rifle based upon how fast you can load it is like buying a handgun, because someone tells you it can be fired underwater. If I want to shoot underwater, I'll buy a spear gun. If I want sustained fire, I'll use one of my ARs.

I really wonder how many people considering the purchase of a .357 rifle are concerned with how fast you can reload either. Again, it's a non issue.

 

[HOOfan_1]

My point is that a blanket statement and all Ruger's Suck is probably going to draw some fire.

What is a brand discussion thread on thehighroad without some haters and fanboys spreading hyperbole?

 

[LTR shooter]

I am going to replace my Marlin 1894 with a Ruger 77/357. I will report on it here and tell you if I made a good choice.

Will be interesting. The Ruger would have to turn out to shoot really accurately for me to be interested. At least on the level of my 10" TC Contender. No doubts that the 77/357 will be accurate enough for short range hunting but I would not spend that kind of money just to have something different that did not shoot. If they turn out to really shoot well I may consider one as I've always like the 357.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Mach iv you're really really grasping if all you can come up with is rate of fire. You know what I can lay a box of 50 rds on the table and beat you not even using my 77/44's mag just by loading single rounds into the chamber. I owned a 1895 and there isn't a slower to load gun made and forget about single rounds dropped into the loading gate since they just love to hang up on the back of the lifter and cause the user to do a nice rifle sideways jiggle dance.

Besides arguing that a bolt action 357 mag is slower to reload and offers less rate of fire than a 357 levergun is akin to bragging about being the smartest kid in special Ed class.


Why don't we talk about the safety mechanisms on the two guns.

Ruger- three position
Marlin - inadvertent decocker and a halfcock "pull the trigger on a live round" notch.


Hmmmm let me think in a survival situation which would I want to potentially share with fellow survialists who may of may not be gun people in an environment where gloves may be required.

BTW rate of fire in a survival rifle means learning how to throw spears sooner


Another point

As the owner of several different 357 carbines the use of 38's has no practical use WHATSOEVER

Why

Because the difference in POI even at 50yds from magnum loads is best expressed in FEET. Or in other words you're not going to hit squat with a 357 sighted rifle shooting 38's on something the size of "small" game.

 

[Dobe]

Because the difference in POI even at 50yds from magnum loads is best expressed in FEET. Or in other words you're not going to hit squat with a 357 sighted rifle shooting 38's on something the size of "small" game.

-something I hadn't even thought about. All of the sudden, the importance of the rotary magazine being able to handle .38s isn't so important.

 

[wcavasos]

I'm just glad I don't need other peoples justifications for my buying a rifle. I find it is exactly what I wanted(like others though I do prefer wood stocks and blued finish.) If they hit the shelves between 5 and 6 hundred dollars i might own two of them.

 

[ECVMatt]

I'm just glad I don't need other peoples justifications for my buying a rifle. I find it is exactly what I wanted(like others though I do prefer wood stocks and blued finish.) If they hit the shelves between 5 and 6 hundred dollars i might own two of them.

I think they are going to be about $550ish...

 

[MachIVshooter]

Mach iv you're really really grasping if all you can come up with is rate of fire.

Since the 77/357's accuracy is yet unknown, what else is there? Same cartridge, similar size, weight and cost.

But that's like saying one is really grasping to suggest that a Camaro SS only advantage over a V6 car is being much faster. That's the whole point.

You know what I can lay a box of 50 rds on the table and beat you not even using my 77/44's mag just by loading single rounds into the chamber

I can single load a Levergun, too.

.

I owned a 1895 and there isn't a slower to load gun made and forget about single rounds dropped into the loading gate since they just love to hang up on the back of the lifter and cause the user to do a nice rifle sideways jiggle dance.

Except the 1895 is a whole different class of levergun from the 94. Much longer stroke to accomodate the .45-70 (or .444, .450) cartridge and the elevator system is not quite the same.

That said, I bet I can still load the 4 rounds my 1895 SS holds and fire them off faster than one can load the 77/357 magazine, insert it and and empty the rifle.

Besides arguing that a bolt action 357 mag is slower to reload and offers less rate of fire than a 357 levergun is akin to bragging about being the smartest kid in special Ed class.

Nice attempt at a dig, but you just managed to dis both rifles and still admit that the levergun is superior in firepower.

Why don't we talk about the safety mechanisms on the two guns.

Ruger- three position
Marlin - inadvertent decocker and a halfcock "pull the trigger on a live round" notch.


Hmmmm let me think in a survival situation which would I want to potentially share with fellow survialists who may of may not be gun people in an environment where gloves may be required.

That's personal preference. I personally hate safeties on leverguns, so this is not a detractor for me. I'm not alone on this one, either.

If you can't control the hammer on gun to decock it, that's your malfunction, and you need to stay away from revolvers as well.

Between your wanting to say how impossibly slow side gate loading is and suggesting that it's unsafe or otherwise difficult to manually lower a hammer, I can only surmise that you have hand strength or dexterity issues.

BTW rate of fire in a survival rifle means learning how to throw spears sooner

Huh???

Another point

As the owner of several different 357 carbines the use of 38's has no practical use WHATSOEVER

Except the single biggest reason people like .357/.38 interchangeability, and the very reason that is cited for .357 Revolvers time and time again on this board and every other; COST. If one doesn't handload, .38 is half the price, which makes the interchangeability very attractive if one intends to actually shoot their gun.

 

[Dobe]

It's almost as though you are trying to justify your purchase...