First 1911... Talk me out of (or into) this Kimber

[Harriw]

Hey folks,

So a few years ago I pretty much finished up my collection of guns that have a legitimate purpose (or, let's be honest... that I can come up a legitimate excuse for). I'm not shopping for my first gun purchased 100% because it will bring me happiness. So I'm looking at 1911's.

There's lots of beautiful 1911's out there, and I like many of them. I love the no-frills, mil-spec GI models (would LOVE an actual CMP 1911 some day, but that will have to wait). In particular, I like the looks of the Springfield Armory's parkerized Mil Spec model. Very GI, but with actual usable sights.

I love the newer ones too, and would definitely appreciate a beaver tail, skeletonized hammer, nicer sights, etc. that they provide. Of these, I've had my eye on Ruger's entry model SR1911's with the brushed stainless and black controls.

I went to our local Sportsmans Warehouse tonight to see what they had and handle a few. They didn't have any Rugers, but they had a pair of Springfield Armory Garison models (a step up from the GI model - very similar to the feature set of the Ruger I mentioned). They felt very nice, tight, etc., but clearly need some breaking in - some sharp-ish edges, and a touch of grit on the slide rails, etc.

Then I noticed a Kimber on the used rack... I'd been pretty much ignoring Kimbers in my research because I've heard/read so many bad things about them. But figured I'd take a look at this one and see. It's a Kimber Stainless Target II, and felt MUCH nicer than the two S.A.'s I looked at previously. Slide is smooth as silk. It's priced at $719.99, which is about the same as the cheaper of the 2 SA's (one was parkerized and one was Stainless). I did some looking when I got home, and I'm finding this Kimber new for as low as $900, and as high as $1050 or so. This particular shop had a new Kimber stainless priced at $1050 as well for whatever that's worth.

So... I took a picture of the serial number and will call Kimber in the morning to try and get a mfg. date on this particular piece, but should I be wary of this gun? For anybody "in the know," the serial number format is Kxxxxxx, and it does say "Yonkers" on the frame. What exactly should I be watching for in a Kimber? I realized I don't recall reading any specifics of WHAT about them is terrible.... just that their QC is awful in general. Anything special about this model I should be looking for? As I said this will be my first 1911 so I'm no pro at evaluating them, but I did shake them all pretty well. I did heard a *touch* of a "rattle" in this Kimber, but can't tell exactly what it is... I get the exact same sound from jiggling the grip safety, but the grip safety would have been depressed while I was shaking it so I don't think that was it...

Obviously this model comes with target rear sights (and a fiber optic front). Honestly, I think I'd prefer a set of novaks (or maybe even something similar with tritium - don't know if Novak makes those or not?) This will be a range toy and I don't think it will make much difference, but I see the Novaks as being more of a "middle ground" in case this does become a nightstand gun, or get carried in the woods someday. Based on some quick googling, it sounds like Kimber uses their own unique dovetail dimensions, but Novak DOES make sights to match the Kimber dovetail so swapping these sights out would certainly be an option.

So... thoughts? Should I be running away from this model? Running back to the shop before somebody else grabs it? I didn't really think to take any good pics, but here it is in the display case just so there's something to show:





Thanks a lot folks!

 

[Steve in Allentown]

So... I took a picture of the serial number and will call Kimber in the morning to try and get a mfg. date on this particular piece, but should I be wary of this gun?

I would ask them if they will cover this used pistol under warranty. If they say they will absolutely cover it under warranty then your worries are over - almost. Often manufacturers will not warranty firearms that have been modified in any way. So, if this pistol has not been modified in any way and Kimber swears to all that is holy that they will fix any issues with it for free, I say buy it. Their customer service and warranty work has a good reputation.

 

[Howland937]

I think the price makes it worth considering. You're only a couple hundred more than a Rock Island, closer to $300 less than the SR1911's I've seen around here.
I'm not a Kimber fan, and have sold literally every one I've owned, but the "problems" I had were more personal preference than failure. Such as: I don't mind not having front grip checkering...if it's a mil-spec version.. It's a requirement on any other 1911. Lack of memory bump on the grip safety on some I've had. Mechanically I've had more problems with other major makers than I've had with Kimber.

If you haven't shot a 1911 with the fully adjustable target sights, you might wanna give them a try before you decide to swap them out...or at least keep the rear and get rid of the fiber optic front.

I know a guy that has a half dozen Kimbers and if he saw that one at that price, he'd snatch it up without hesitation.

 

[Charlie98]

That is a fair price for that pistol... if I was in the market for a target style 1911, I'd pick it up in a heartbeat.

There are Kimbers in the $700 range, those don't usually have some of the extra features the $1000-1100 Kimbers do, like night sights (because, duh, it has target sights,) front strap checkering, and some other minor details, but it a solid pistol.

 

[Harriw]

I would ask them if they will cover this used pistol under warranty. If they say they will absolutely cover it under warranty then your worries are over - almost. Often manufacturers will not warranty firearms that have been modified in any way. So, if this pistol has not been modified in any way and Kimber swears to all that is holy that they will fix any issues with it for free, I say buy it. Their customer service and warranty work has a good reputation.

Great idea - I'll ask that when I call in the morning.

I think the price makes it worth considering. You're only a couple hundred more than a Rock Island, closer to $300 less than the SR1911's I've seen around here.
I'm not a Kimber fan, and have sold literally every one I've owned, but the "problems" I had were more personal preference than failure. Such as: I don't mind not having front grip checkering...if it's a mil-spec version. It's a requirement on any other 1911. Mechanically I've had more problems with other major makers than I've had with Kimber.

If you haven't shot a 1911 with the fully adjustable target sights, you might wanna give them a try before you decide to swap them out...or at least keep the rear and get rid of the fiber optic front.

I know a guy that has a half dozen Kimbers and if he saw that one at that price, he'd snatch it up without hesitation.

Yeah, I can't help but wonder if this is somebody's "problem gun" (easily resolved by the first comment), but that sounds like an awfully good price... There's a used Springfield Armory parkerized Mil Spec listed on armslist (right in my town actually) for $600... and this is only $120 more for what felt like a significant step up in fit/finish. Valid point on the sights too - if I do get this one I'll give them a good long try-out before making any decision on replacing them. I hadn't even noticed the lack of front checkering... That's why I'm here asking you guys

Thanks!

 

[Mark_Mark]

Smith & Western pro shop
Dan Western

1911’s are great for the money

 

[thunderbyrd]

I have a Kimber custom II. It shoots just fine until the last round in the mag, then it usually fails to go into battery. I think it's probably a magazine issue. But I'm a bit put out with it and am thinking about moving it along. My RIA 1911 doesn't do that.

But the Kimber is a sweet shooting pistol otherwise.

 

[DeepSouth]

I would ask them if they will cover this used pistol under warranty

in my limited experience they don’t care to warranty a new pistol.
To be fair it has been a long time, I’d say at least a decade. but their CS convicted me to never own another Kimber.

 

[JTQ]

In all these "what 1911 should I get" threads, the two things I always tell people to pick is the sights they want and decide if they want/need a beavertail grip safety.

Unlike Glock, 1911's don't all have the same sight dovetail, and not all grip safeties are beavertails (the pictured Kimber has a beavertail while a Springfield Mil-Spec doesn't). Choosing wrong on either selection and you may need to either file or weld, or both, on your gun to correct your choice.

Obviously this model comes with target rear sights (and a fiber optic front). Honestly, I think I'd prefer a set of novaks (or maybe even something similar with tritium - don't know if Novak makes those or not?) ... but I see the Novaks as being more of a "middle ground" in case this does become a nightstand gun, or get carried in the woods someday. Based on some quick googling, it sounds like Kimber uses their own unique dovetail dimensions, but Novak DOES make sights to match the Kimber dovetail so swapping these sights out would certainly be an option.

So... thoughts?

Novak doesn't make a sight for the adjustable sight dovetail on that Kimber. That is probably an LPA cut.

Here is what Novak makes https://www.novaksights.com/Default.aspx?PAGE=Main Page

Here is Kensight describing some common 1911 dovetails https://stores.kensight.com/common-1911-sight-dovetails/

If you haven't shot a 1911 with the fully adjustable target sights, you might wanna give them a try before you decide to swap them out...or at least keep the rear and get rid of the fiber optic front.

Another reason not to change them out, there aren't many options for that adjustable sight cut, especially if you want something with night sights, or with more rounded edges. I think Harrison, 10-8 Performance, and Heinie may be the only ones offering a fixed sight for the LPA adjustable dovetail. Your options will be limited.

 

[JTQ]

Point #2, Kimber's with the "II" designation have a Swartz style firing pin safety. While nearly all semi-auto pistols have a firing pin safety, Glock, SIG, Beretta, HK, Walther, etc., most 1911's don't (Springfield won't have a firing pin safety), and those that do, primarily use the Colt Series 80 style firing pin safety. That is neither good or bad, it's just that Kimber is marching to their own drummer in the 1911 firing pin safety world.

 

[Harriw]

In all these "what 1911 should I get" threads, the two things I always tell people to pick is the sights they want and decide if they want/need a beavertail grip safety.

Unlike Glock, 1911's don't all have the same sight dovetail, and not all grip safeties are beavertails. Choosing wrong on either selection and you may need to either file or weld, or both, on your gun to correct your choice.

Novak doesn't make a sight for the adjustable sight dovetail on that Kimber. That is probably an LPA cut.

Here is what Novak makes https://www.novaksights.com/Default.aspx?PAGE=Main Page

Here is Kensight describing some common 1911 dovetails https://stores.kensight.com/common-1911-sight-dovetails/


Another reason not to change them out, there aren't many options for that adjustable sight cut, especially if you want something with night sights, or with more rounded edges. I think Harrison, 10-8 Performance, and Heinie may be the only ones offering a fixed sight for the LPA adjustable dovetail. Your options will be limited.

Thanks very much for setting me straight!

Point #2, Kimber's with the "II" designation have a Swartz style firing pin safety. While nearly all semi-auto pistols have a firing pin safety, Glock, SIG, Beretta, HK, Walther, etc., most 1911's don't (Springfield won't have a firing pin safety), and those that do, primarily use the Colt Series 80 style firing pin safety. That is neither good or bad, it's just that Kimber is marching to their own drummer in the 1911 firing pin safety world.

I only know what I've read so I could be wrong... but my understanding of the "Series II" firing pin block is that it's a bit different from the Colt-style Swartz safety. I believe the firing pin block in Kimber's version is actuated by the grip safety, and not by the trigger. So if you drop the gun the firing pin block is still in place (since you're no longer holding in the grip safety). But the firing pin block won't affect trigger pull because that's not what actuates it. Can anyone confirm/debunk this for me?

I will add that the trigger pull on this Kimber was incredibly crisp, and LIGHT.

EDIT: I did some more googling, and it seems I was confused... The "Swartz style" safety JTQ mentioned is exactly what I described above, and does NOT refer to the colt series 80 style (trigger activated). Reading JTQ's post again now, it's perfectly clear that this is exactly what he was pointing out. My apologies.

Thanks.

 

[JTQ]

Kimber's firing pin safety - a version of the Colt designed Swartz firing pin safety from the 1930's - is activated/deactivated by the grip safety, while the more common Colt Series 80 is activated/deactivated by the trigger, which is like nearly every other firing pin safety on the market.

A pro shooter can probably tell, by pulling the trigger, which gun has a firing pin safety and which doesn't, but most other folks won't be able to notice the difference, at least if the firing pin safety is functioning properly. Worrying about a Series 80 firing pin safety ruining a trigger pull is needless worrying.

 

[Harriw]

Kimber's firing pin safety - a version of the Colt designed Swartz firing pin safety from the 1930's - is activated/deactivated by the grip safety, while the more common Colt Series 80 is activated/deactivated by the trigger, which is like nearly every other firing pin safety on the market.

A pro shooter can probably tell, by pulling the trigger, which gun has a firing pin safety and which doesn't, but most other folks won't be able to notice the difference, at least if the firing pin safety is functioning properly. Worrying about a Series 80 firing pin safety ruining a trigger pull is needless worrying.

Thanks JTQ - looks like I was googling and adding my edit while you were typing. Sorry for confusing the issue, and thanks for clarifying.

 

[JTQ]

Let me add - some will try to talk you out of the Kimber due to the firing pin safety. I'm not, I'm just identifying that it is there.

Unless you absolutely want an adjustable rear sight, I would talk you out of the Kimber for that reason. It's not a Glock. If you want tritium dots, or some other common defensive style rear sight, it isn't going to be easy finding a replacement of that type that fits that rear dovetail.

 

[Charlie98]

I have 2 Kimbers... a II and a pre-II, and I can't tell a difference.

I wouldn't buy a S&W with a side lock, but a 1911 firing pin safety isn't that big of a deal.

 

[jmorris]

Worrying about a Series 80 firing pin safety ruining a trigger pull is needless worrying.

Especially when they can be eliminated if one desires. Much more difficult to add the “feature” to one that doesn’t have it, that is for sure.

With what I have seen people doing in the last two years, the pistol in the OP looks like a great deal.

 

[Riomouse911]

For 9mm 1911’s I have a Kimber Stainless Target II 5”, a Springfield Ronin 4.25” and a Kimber Ultra Carry II.

The ST II is a great full sized target gun, accurate and soft shooting. The sights are really good and out of the box it had a 4pound trigger pull with zero creep. I paid $1,050 for it new, the price you’re looking at isn’t bad at all if it’s been well treated.





That was three full magazines of WWB 124 gr FMJ at 10 yards on a B-27 with the ST II.

The Ronin is much like the SA Garrison; several upgrades over a plain Jane gun but not all the stuff (or cost) of a top end semi-custom pistol. The trigger pull needed a bit of help, I put in a Cylinder and Slide 4.5 lb trigger kit and the trigger is much nicer now. This was pre-trigger upgrade, still a pretty good
showing.



In .45 I have a Springfield Loaded 1911 5” and a Ruger SR 1911 4.25”. These guns are also very good shooters, both have been excellent guns as well .



Good luck selecting a 1911, you’ve got great options to choose from.

Stay safe.

 

[halfmoonclip]

I've had two Kimbers, a Solo and an Evo. Both had a trip to the mother ship to run correctly, but they weren't 1911s.
Personally, a 1911, made by someone besides Colt, is like a Ford Corvette or a Chevy Mustang. And, come time to sell, a Colt is always a Colt.
Now that is just me, so spare me the torches and pitchforks...
As regards the firing pin safety, happily, the Series 80 (trigger activated) system has become much better in Colts, and likely in other things as well. There are also Series 70 systems that use a Ti firing pin, and a strong firing pin spring. Or, there are things like the Turk GI (okay, do have one of those.... ) whose makers, apparently, say the hell with it, and just make the parts of steel, the way Browning willed it.
As regards the original Kimber in question, for the bells and whistles, it's not a bad deal. OTOH, at that price point, you're on the edge of a bunch of nice pistols. So take your time, and look around. Nineteen elevens aren't rare, so have fun shopping.
Moon
Moon

 

[Slamfire]

Who the heck are they that hate Kimbers, and is their hatred based on anything but envy?

This was my first Kimber, and it is a great 1911



Clackamus, that makes it one of the first 5000 built. It is a series 70 action.



this one, I decided to try a 9mm in 2700 Bullseye Pistol. Spent extra to have Clark Guns in Louisiana mount a base on top.



From day one it went bang and extracted the shell. I never shot it as well with it as my 45 ACP pistols, and at the end of the day I had three guns to clean up, instead of two.

I did take the Swartz safety out of the slide.



Left the receiver parts in but don't like them. Can't depress the grip safety when reassembling the pistol because the plunger gets in the way.



This was a recent acquisition. A series 70 Kimber built to be a target pistol





Ruined any collector value by adding an ultradot on top



but it is a tack driver, all the way out to 50 yards.



as a previous poster has said, the complainers are mostly upset over features. My Kimbers have all been reliable, and accurate. The 45's are very accurate, I think the 9mm is probably equal, but I don't shoot it well.

The price you are quoting looks good, so, what's the problem?

 

[Harriw]

Hey folks,

Sorry to leave the thread hanging - was a crazy day yesterday. I did, however, make it back to the shop to take a 2nd look at the Kimber. It seems to like me too, because it followed me home Here's some proper pictures now that I have it home:







Could use a bit of cleaning, but is otherwise in great shape Now I just have to find some .45acp somewhere that won't require a 2nd mortage to buy...

 

[CarJunkieLS1]

My Kimber Stainless 5" model I LOVE IT, it is absolutely the most accurate 1911 I've ever fired and I've fired or owned at least 25.

Never has given me any issues at all has fed every brass cased round I've shot, never will see steel or aluminum. Mine is the fixed sight model but the sights are dead on and doesn't need touched.

Paid like 729 new for mine and I wouldn't take 1500 for it.

 

[Tallball]

Congratulations! You're going to enjoy shooting that beautiful pistol.

 

[Charlie98]

Good for you!

It looks like it's been fired some, that would lead me to think it's likely not a problem child.

Please follow up with a range report!

 

[Jack B.]

I've owned since new a Kimber Custom II in 45ACP. Paid $800. Longer ago then that I owned a Colt Gold Cup. Don't have it anymore. I shoot the Kimber better and like the Kimber better. Maybe difference in age. Bought my Kimber Sometime in the early 2010's Colt around 1970. I love my Kimber. No problems ever. Just get new springs for it and maybe a new mag or two. All for sale on Kimber website. At reasonable prices.

 

[Harriw]

It looks like it's been fired some....
Please follow up with a range report!

Yeah, for sure - I think this gun is right in the sweet spot. It's been nicely broken in, but has a LONG life ahead of it. Lots of wear marks in all the obvious places where parts rub, but nothing at all alarming. I stripped it down thinking I might want to do a bit of polishing on various parts, but found there's no need - previous owner took care of that just through shooting it. Slide is smooth as butter, and the rifling in the barrel looks pristine.