First mold, First casts

[kmw1954]

Thought I would start a new post so as not to get convoluted.

Today I lost my casting virginity with that new Lee 356-102-R1 mold and my first reaction is WEW! It was a bit breezy outside to it seemed to take the pot a while to melt the ingots and get up to temp. Next I put the new ladle in the molten to get it hot. Pot partially froze up until it came back up to temp. Then placed the mold on top to heat and again the pot froze up some.

After I felt good about the lead temp and it was pouring nicely from the bottom of the ladle I took a deep breath and poured.

What a novice was my first thought as there was lead everywhere. The sprue plate was completely covered and there was lead running down both sides of the mold. But the cavities were filled out and the bullets dropped out reasonably well. This repeated pretty much most of the first 10 minutes.

As I was progressing the sprue got smaller and more well formed only then I started getting incomplete fills and what looks like separations from starting and stopping and starting again.

Good thing is that everything looks to have good sharp fills but there were a bunch that looks like I didn't get the mold closed squarely as the lube groove was misaligned.

I can see where this is going to take some practice and a good repeatable technique.

The GOOD, The BAD and the Ugly!

 

[troy fairweather]

Your using a gas burner right. Fold some aluminum foil and fill the air space between the pot and the rack things will heat up much quicker. Put the ladle in the fire to warm up.

 

[kmw1954]

Your using a gas burner right. Fold some aluminum foil and fill the air space between the pot and the rack things will heat up much quicker. Put the ladle in the fire to warm up.

Sorry but nope. Using an electric hot plate and a Stainless pan. I did have some cardboard boxes set up to wrap around the hotplate and help keep the wind off.

 

[flightsimmer]

Not hot enough.

 

[troy fairweather]

Sorry but nope. Using an electric hot plate and a Stainless pan. I did have some cardboard boxes set up to wrap around the hotplate and help keep the wind off.

Try to get a old cast iron pan if you are not going to get a lead pot. Wal-Mart has a smaller one for like $6 the Dutch oven is not to much. You got some cold shuts in your pics so your lead was cold or the mold to cold or both. Every time you cast you will learn new things so keep at it. The mold can be harder to keep lined up when it's cold to. Try to remember to keep a firm grip.

 

[kmw1954]

Folks this is the Pan, plate and partial wind brake that I am using.



It will get plenty hot enough it just takes awhile and I can get impatient. That 9" cast Iron will not get hot enough out to the edges to keep a melt. Those "cold shuts" are those the ones with the lines in them? It's going to take some but I think I'll get this. Already have a much improved idea of what I'm doing now than I did this morning. Sure there will be more questions as I go.

 

[troy fairweather]

Ya the ones with the lines. If just plinking there ok to shoot. But they probably weigh less and can fragment. The first 10 or 20 bullets normally get dumped back in the lead. What are you fluxing with?

 

[Walkalong]

It's a very satisfying feeling isn't it.

 

[kmw1954]

Ya the ones with the lines. If just plinking there ok to shoot. But they probably weigh less and can fragment. The first 10 or 20 bullets normally get dumped back in the lead. What are you fluxing with?

Using paraffin wax for now. There was easily 15 to 20 pours that went right back into the pot. I could tell that the mold was getting hotter as things started looking better as I went on..

Yes it was very satisfying and exhausting at the same time for the first try. Now I will sleep on it and sort thru everything I've learned and experienced today!

 

[kmw1954]

So last night before I went to bed I went to the bench and weighed and measured these new casting. They all measured out at about .3565" to .358" most were right at .357".. The weight was a little different. The lightest weight was 105gr while the heaviest was 108.4gr.. Is this normal? How does this compare to what I should expect? How does lead alloy effect finished weight?

 

[Col. Harrumph]

Did you pick up a copy of the Lyman manual like I told you to? (Pay attention to us old guys!)

It's a skill... no it's a bunch of skills... and the first skill to learn is patience! (with yourself!) (and with your equipment!)

Invest in a deep iron pot. Invest in a thermometer (like this one: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010240584?pid=595204). A textbook will tell you lead melts at 620-ish F. I don't have much luck casting until the temp reads closer to 700F. While you're shopping for a thermometer, get some real flux. (I like this stuff: https://www.frankfordarsenal.com/search/?q=flux&lang=default.)

Timing the pour to get a large-enough sprue puddle to feed the contracting bullet, but not so large as to spill over, is an art. You've already found that it's got to be done in one go. If you can get wrinkle-free bullets after 20 or so rejects, you're doing fine.

As to acceptable weight variation, that depends on why you're casting your own. I'd stay for starters (just plinking), if you can keep your casts within 4-5% of the average weight, cool. For defense or other precision work of course the tolerance would be much narrower.

 

[mstreddy]

KMW,
Nice work. It's good to see you "get on the pot" so -to - speak...
I'll second the suggestion to get the Lyman manual. It was very helpful for me to get started.

 

[kmw1954]

I'll quote something a member on Cast Boolits told me. "The only way to learn to cast boolits, is to cast boolits". Practice, practice, practice... After yesterdays session and from many years of mechanical maintenance work I have to agree, The best way to learn a new skill is to just do it. The nice thing about the forums is that it provides a place to ask questions that come up after something happens.

Like my weight question which is still unaddressed. Not asking if this is acceptable. I'm asking if this is normal, common. Also asking if different alloy compositions effect the final weight. I am assuming that the nominal weight used to describe molds is based on Lyman #2 alloy.

 

[troy fairweather]

I'll quote something a member on Cast Boolits told me. "The only way to learn to cast boolits, is to cast boolits". Practice, practice, practice... After yesterdays session and from many years of mechanical maintenance work I have to agree, The best way to learn a new skill is to just do it. The nice thing about the forums is that it provides a place to ask questions that come up after something happens.

Like my weight question which is still unaddressed. Not asking if this is acceptable. I'm asking if this is normal, common. Also asking if different alloy compositions effect the final weight. I am assuming that the nominal weight used to describe molds is based on Lyman #2 alloy.

Different alloys will weigh different. Pure lead is the most it will also affect the size to.

 

[Englishmn]

Light bullets for me usually have a void in the base where the sprue is cut.

 

[mstreddy]

Like my weight question which is still unaddressed. Not asking if this is acceptable. I'm asking if this is normal, common. Also asking if different alloy compositions effect the final weight. I am assuming that the nominal weight used to describe molds is based on Lyman #2 alloy.

At least in my albeit limited experience. Yest to both of your questions. There will be weight variation from cast to cast due to the mentioned issues of fillout, voids, and the wrinkles you mentioned and I am oh so familiar with. And yes, the alloy differences will result in weight differences. As Troy mentioned pure lead is heaviest. As they alloy changes, so will the weight. For the alloy mix(es) I'm using, my molds typically drop at a couple grains higher than the listed weight.

 

[kmw1954]

I can completely understand the void weight difference as I know I'm doing that as a newbie. So for those casting with COWW's how much heavier are you seeing in the advertised weight and the actual weight you are getting? Does 5gr sound about right?

If it doesn't rain tomorrow I'm going to try again and hope the technique improves now that I have a small clue.

 

[Hondo 60]

Never did get the hang of a ladle pour.
I have a bottom pour furnace.
It eliminates some of the mistakes for me.

Just my 2¢ worth. YMMV

 

[kmw1954]

With not have much experience all I can say is with this small 2 cavity mold the ladle works well I think. I do need to work on my sprue hole aim though.

 

[BWS]

3 "P's"

Patience,practice,and precision.

The wonderful thing about casting is,we don't have to settle for diddly..... rejects go back in the pot.

 

[brewer12345]

What weight you actually get depends on the alloy and the mold. I routinely get 205 grain bullets from my favorite Lee molds for 45 cal despite the advertised 200 grain bullet weight. Makes no difference in loading and performance that I can see. The bigger issue is consistency. If your weights vary a lot, you may not end up with good accuracy. Inconsistent weights can be a functionof the mold, but technique matters a lot. As you practice you Will get more consistent. Having a thermometer helps as well because it let's you ensure you are casting at about the same temp every time.

I tolerate a range of +/- 2 or 3 grains on my 45 slugs. More that that, which is about 1%variance and my groups open up. Depending on your gun, load, etc., you might be fine with a wider spread of weights. Otoh, if you are going for the highest possible accuracy, I have heard of rifle shooters culling bullets that are more than a grain away from the average their mold casts at.

 

[kmw1954]

Thanks again everyone!

I understand the consistency part is reliant a lot on the caster and how consistent they are in their work.

I just thought that a gain of 5gr., from an advertised weight of 102 up to a 107gr or 108gr was a pretty big swing. I was thinking a weight of 105gr for this small a bullet would be normal from what I have read in other posts over the last couple years.

Well the sun is shinning and the wind isn't howling so I'm going to go practice and refine my skills.

 

[whughett]

Way too much surface area on the pan, deep and narrow is better. If you don’t have one invest in a RCBS or Lyman ladle like this one
I have two electric pots, old when I picked them up 20 years ago. Both bottoms pour, both leaked. Welded up the spouts and started casting with a ladle. Many thousands of bullets and round balls ago.

 

[reddog81]

It looks like some of the bullets have a fin where the lead is getting between the sprue plate and the top of the mold. This will cause weight variations. Can the sprue plate be tightened at all? I'd be surprised to see a weight variation of 5 grains in a mold that small. I once weighed 50 140 grain bullets and all were within 2 grains except for a couple bullets with voids in the bottoms. Those ones weighed 2-3 grains less than the average. Most variations will be on the low side due to poor fill out or voids. Extra weight means the mold wasn't completely closed or lead is getting somewhere were it shouldn't be.

Lead is very heavy and using tin and antimony will reduce the weight.

 

[whughett]

It looks like some of the bullets have a fin where the lead is getting between the sprue plate and the top of the mold. This will cause weight variations. Can the sprue plate be tightened at all? I'd be surprised to see a weight variation of 5 grains in a mold that small. I once weighed 50 140 grain bullets and all were within 2 grains except for a couple bullets with voids in the bottoms. Those ones weighed 2-3 grains less than the average. Most variations will be on the low side due to poor fill out or voids. Extra weight means the mold wasn't completely closed or lead is getting somewhere were it shouldn't be.

Lead is very heavy and using tin and antimony will reduce the weight.

Lee molds, while adequate are not top quality. Fine for day to day paper punching. Several of mine leave that thin flash on the bottom. None of my RCBS, Lyman or H&G do. Like most equipment top quality cost top money.