Flash tube Ignition

[AbitNutz]

I think we've all seen artillery shells that have a flash tube in them. Some seem to be solid to end of the tube. Others seem to have holes spaced around the tube. I guess the idea was to ignite the powder somewhere other than the base of the powder stack.

It seems that C/B pistols have their issues with ignition, especially when using B/P substitutes.

I have found that RWS 1075 plus caps and Slix Shot nipples, with that horizontal hole, seem to really make a big kaboom. Yes, I know the cross drilled hole is in the cap side and not in the cylinder side.

I kept thinking that maybe a flash tube would be interesting to try.

I have thought about sacrificing one of my cylinders. Turn the threads off a nipple and fit it into a small piece of stainless tube. Then thread the tube to fit into the cylinder. I'm pretty sure that cutting threads into tube with the nipple held in it would keep both pieces together.

I saw this done with some high pressure rifle cartridge cases. All they did was thread a brass tube into the inside base of the cartridge. They had a few issues but ultimately it did work. Meaning it didn't blowout or cause any problems. There was no real performance increase that they felt was worth the effort. They did notice that all the modified cases, the chronograph said was more consistent.

I'm just thinking that it may provide more positive ignition in a B/P revolver. If you have the flash tube cross drilled in several locations and use hot caps like the RWS's. I think there's a fair chance that it would improve the odds of ignition.

It would be shockingly easy for a nipple manufacturer to do this.

Down side would be that the chamber would hold some what less powder and you'd have to make sure you didn't squish your ball or bullet into it when loading.

I don't know, maybe when I get time to breath I'll try it...

 

[Gatofeo]

The late gun writer Elmer Keith (1899-1983) wrote that he used flash tubes in some .44 Special cases, I believe it was. He got better ignition and pressures seemed to be lower.
I've also wondered about lengthened nipples, using the flash tube concept. Been wondering for decades about the concept, but the more I thought of it, the more it seemed like putting Supreme gasoline in your lawnmower.
Cap and ball revolvers have such relatively small capacity, at most 50 grains in the Walker or Dragoon. Most revolvers use 20 to 35 grains; doesn't take much "spark" to ignite that small amount.
But still, the concept has intrigued me. Yes, you'd lose a little powder capacity. And you'd have to be careful that you don't damage the extended nipple by seating a ball down on it.
It remains an intriguing idea, but in retrospect I don't think it would be of much benefit with such small amounts of powder. In a rifle? Perhaps it would work but it would have to be an inline rifle -- and my religion forbids me from using such abominations. <smirk>

 

[AbitNutz]

I think we're exactly on the same page with this. But I think there's a fair possibility that this could result in a lower percentage of misfire/hangfires. That's all I would be looking for...greater reliability.

I too read Kieth's work on this. He was looking for more than "fewer misfire/hangfires". The self contained cartridge in general is already almost 100% on ignition. So an increase in ignition reliability would not be much of a deal

But an increase in C/B ignition reliability would genuinely be worth the effort.

 

[arcticap]

The flash tube idea sounds like it may be similar to loading several grains of 4F into the bottom of each chamber prior to loading the main charge. It could speed up the ignition enough to have more reliable ignition and a more complete burn of the rest of the powder charge. Then chronograph testing would be able to show if adding 4F increased the performance and velocity or not.

 

[Jaymo]

I have a nipple like that in my TC ThunderHawk inline. It's the only inline I own, and I figured it would be a good way to ensure good ignition with #11 caps.
Perhaps I should make some nipples like that for my Howdah, ROA, and jukar.

 

[AbitNutz]

I think that's a good idea as well. Putting a few grains of 4f at the bottom and then finishing off with 3F. I bet that would help some.

I still think that a nipple with flash tube and array of ignition holes would really help reduce hang fires and increase reliability.

It's such a simple idea...is there no one here with the talent to make up a half dozen for me to buy and try?

 

[Jaymo]

I may or may not have the talent. I do have the lathe and mill. I seem to be lacking the "round tuit" needed to do it.

Thinking on it, I don't think it would help the Jukar/CVA Colonial pistol. IIRC, it uses a drum/thimble, whatever it's called, and the flash hole is not in line with the powder.
I guess it would work, if I shimmed the nipple, to index a flash hole to point directly at the powder charge.
I think it would be a WOMBAT to try it with the Jukar.
I think it may be useful with the Howdah and revolvers.

 

[AbitNutz]

I've only thought of the idea was in relation to revolvers. I think it would certainly help in the cap goes "pop" and no kaboom scenario.

If I'm careful and stick to my protocols....blow out and clean the nipples and cylinders each time I bring the ROA out to shoot. I minimize the above scenario.

It would be nice to have a more positive ignition system and I think that's what we're talking about here.