Flashlight Mania

[rhoggman]

Ok... I understand why people put flashlights on pistols, sort of. So you can see in the dark while sporting your gun.

I have seen flashlights on M-4's in real life situations, and they can be quite useful, but I have never actually seen a flashlight on a pistol in a actual tactical environment.

Can anyone give me a real reason why spending money on a SureFire for a pistol beats having nightsites?

I would prefer not to hear anything about varmit hunting in the dark, but please, if you are wasting coons at night with a glock tell us a story

 

[possum]

1st of all i don't "sport my gun".

2nd of all i have seen and used handgun/rifles with weapon mounted lights in both in both training, and tactical/ real world cases. They are invaluable IMHO. i am not issued a handgun in the Army as I am Infantry and we get our m4's, and that is it(unless of course you are a 249 or 240 gunner), my m4 at work and my ar at home both have lights on em. if i was issued a m9 you better believe that i would fit it with a dawson rail and light.

many military, Leo and SRT/ Swat units use handgun lights.

night sights are good for lining your sights up in low to no light scenario, really i have no need for night sights other than the simple fact of being able to locate my handgun on the nightstand in the middle of the night after being awakened by a bump in the night. flashlights have several advantages.
1) they effect the assailants O.O.D.A loop, and that is a discussion for a whole other thread.
2) Temporarily blinds/ disorients the attacker which goes hand in hand with #1
3) allows you to see who/ what your attacker is, armed or not, relative, or foe etc.

when you hit the light the sights are gonna be automatically back lit and you are gonna get a fine crisp sight picture, most of the time better than what you would get when at the range on a bright day with a good visible target, because of that clear, crisp sight picture is one of the reasons that alot of folks shoot better at night than they do during the day.
you don't need to spend the money on a flashlight! what is your life worth?

if you don't want to spend as much as a surefire there are many great alternatives out there, ie streamlight, insights tech etc. check out the m6 and the tlr-1's. you can get them for less that $100.

if you have never had low light training you need to get it. if you get into a defensive encounter, chances are they are gonna be in low light/ to no light situations.

 

[possum]

here is how my xd is ran when in the night stand on home defense duty, and when training in low light.

 

[rhoggman]

You have actually seen an m9 with a light mounted on it used in the US Army?
I will have to agree that good lights are blinding, and can be very effective at confusing a target.

 

[possum]

here are pics from the last low light training that i did.

 

[possum]

You have actually seen an m9 with a light mounted on it used in the US Army?

yep, regular army guys, and glocks with "others".

 

[possum]

I forgot to mention that even a good weapon mounted light is no excuse not to have a good handheld light to back it up. Following the 1 is none and 2 is one concept.

 

[rgwalt]

possum- Your thoughts on the light/laser combo? I was thinking of putting a light on my XD 45 (first need to get night sights), and also a laser. I'm not interested in it for the cool factor so much as I am for aquiring and keeping a target (which a light would help with admittedly). Plus the laser would be useful for practice, dry firing, etc. I can't decide if I want to go light/laser combo, or do something like the streamlight TLR-2 + crimson trace grips.

 

[possum]

the only reason i use a laser of any kind is the exact reason that you mentioned for dry fire only. the light on my xd is an m6 with light and laser, however that light was given to me at the Infantry convention a few years back that is why i have the m6, if i would have bought a light my self i would have went with the m3 or tlr-1, saved quite a bit and got one of the cheap rail mounted lasers that they sell at cheaper than dirt, again the do laser dosen't have to be top of the line for me as i don't/ wont use them in a fight. if you are set on having a light/ and a laser i say go for the all in one combo, like the m6/ tlr-2 etc it would be alot cheaper than a light and crimson trace for sure. and the m6/ tlr 2 you could take off if and when you wanted too, the crimson trace makes that tough and adds to the girth of the pistol.

 

[COMPNOR]

Nights sights are good, but they don't help you identify the target. Thats where the flashlight comes in.

Whether its weapon mounted or handheld, its up to you to make sure you practice with it.

 

[possum]

Nights sights are good, but they don't help you identify the target. Thats where the flashlight comes in.

Whether its weapon mounted or handheld, its up to you to make sure you practice with it.

exactly.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Can anyone give me a real reason why spending money on a SureFire for a pistol beats having nightsites?

Night sights don't illuminate a target. Being able to see your sights doesn't mean squat if you can't see your target and what is behind it.

Following the 1 is none and 2 is one concept.

Yeah, I got that at Thunder Ranch as well. I don't think they understood the logical error of the premise.

Let's see, IF 1=None and 2=1, THEN 2=None. So the logic seems to indicate that 2 is no better than one because both are comparable to ZERO.

Its just better to say, 'Carry a spare.'

 

[possum]

once again spy, you are on the money and what you say makes since, and that is something that i never thought about like that before. ok carry a spare!

 

[earlthegoat2]

I have seen a bunch of crap on pistols but it doesnt mean I put it on my gun.

Sure make the argument you can have one hand free with your weapon mounted light. When it comes down to it it is just another trade off in the great world of guns. Everything a compromise. I choose to not don my gun with anything and scoff at the very sight of rails. Rails have become somewhat of a pre lock smith and wesson thing for me. I buy older used guns so I dont have to have the hideous rails on my gun.

I opt for training with a flashlight in hand not on my gun.

 

[possum]

I opt for training with a flashlight in hand not on my gun.

what ever works best for the end user, i opt to train on handheld and weapon mounted lights both,

 

[ScareyH22A]

I shoot better with a two hand grip so I opted for a weapon light. As for the necessity of one, should it even be debated?

 

[outerlimit]

I'm not a big fan of the rail mounted lights on pistols, they throw the balance off for me, but the extra weight up front does help with recoil.

 

[Gryffydd]

I opt for training with a flashlight in hand not on my gun.

Hopefully you're as good at shooting your handgun with a one handed grip as you are with two. If you are you're in a pretty small group

 

[earlthegoat2]

Charlie Brown's teacher comes to mind as I read this...

 

[Gryffydd]

WAAAA WAAAWHWHAHWHA WHAHAHA WHHAAAAAA

Translation:
Unless you have 3 hands you're limited to shooting your pistol one handed if you insist on holding a flashlight in the other.
Have fun reloading or clearing jams too.

 

[rhoggman]

I'm still waiting to see an m9 with a flash lite.

 

[possum]

I'm still waiting to see an m9 with a flash lite.

what kinda unit are you in? do you ever leave the fob?

 

[Gryffydd]

"M9 Beretta pistol with light and suppressor used by Lt. Colonel Brewer in Afghanistan. The suppressor reduces the "flash" or visible light that escapes from the muzzle when the pistol is fired, and helps protect the shooter's hearing. The pistol is designed for use in confined areas such as buildings and caves."
http://www.nebraskahistory.org/exhibits/national_guard/brewer.htm
And that's the National Guard Instead of "waiting" to see one you could have Googled it

 

[rhoggman]

what kinda unit are you in? do you ever leave the fob?

I don't want to get a in a pissing contest here, but M9's are for officers, MP's, and chaplains assistants. I was just being honest. I have never actually seen someone in the military with a flashlight on an M9.

And for your little fobbit joke.... I lived on a firebase in Najaf for a while. When I fist got there we called it a "safehouse", so if you were concerned about me sitting behind a desk you can let it go. I lived outside the wire.

Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings with the flashlight question. Like I said I understand their usefulness, I just think that on a pistol it is a little much. I would have to add the caveat that if it were your only weapon, then maybe you could really benefit. Once again sorry if I ruffled anyone's flowers, or feathers.

 

[possum]

sir,
i wasn't trying to make a joke, it was a honest question. there are 211 jobs in the Army and very few of them are combat arms, therefore it is more likly for you to be in an MOS that is not Combat arms. i didn't mean to put you down, or insult you. i have been in the Army long enough to know that every job is important and ley to the sucess of the overall mission no matter what you do.

also my question was insiting that depending on what kinda unit, ie combat arms etc you are more likely to see things like that. I am Infantry but we have a Plt. of tankers assigned to us, and several of them had lasers on their m9's, some that were smarter than the average tanker, had dawson rails on thier m9's with flashlights, as they were doing the Infantry job too and going house to house, more than anytime before definetly more than OIF 2 when i was first there. i also convinced my co to get a rail on his m9 and light, i am the one that fitted it on his m9.

also if you are outside the wire, in a JSS, patrol alot etc, you are likley to have done joint operations with units that have and use them. the mp's that were attached to our Brigade also had taclights on thier m9's.