Flashlight or stealth?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Caliper_Mi

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
1,672
Location
Michigan
I've been discussing home defense a bit with my s/o lately. She agrees with her fathers standpoint that a flashlight in home defense does nothing but give away your position to any potential BG. Personally, I'm not sure. Obviously light helps with target acquisition and shooting in the dark is a good way to need drywall repair later. OTOH I probably know the layout of my house better than the BG and my eyes are already going to be dark-acclimated.

Opinions? Which is the way to go?
 
Take a quality night shooting class, preferably one that includes a FoF segment. You will find in the average environment there is no such thing as too dark to see. You will both see shapes, you as the good guy doesn't know if that is a good shape, or a bad shape. The bad guy OTOH is likely working alone, and knows that any shape is bad.

Also proper usage of a gun mounted light will minimize the disadvantages, while maximizing the advantages.
 
It always surprises me how many people are under the impression that you turn on the light as soon as you pick up the gun and then wave it around wildly while wandering through the house.

There's a reason most lights are equipped with a momentary switch that can be operated without shifting your hands about.
 
Rule #4. Be SURE of your target and what's behind it. You can't do this in the dark. Jorg is correct that that doesn't mean you have to walk around with a flashlight blazing. I spent 11 years in the Army and believe me when I say that I had to 'retrain my brain' on this issue.
 
That's a good question that I've often thought of. I know the layout of my place really well, and it's never completely dark, so I could easily get into a firing position before turning on my gun light. You flick the light on and if it's someone you know, you don't shoot. If it's someone you don't know on the other hand...
 
That's a good question that I've often thought of. I know the layout of my place really well, and it's never completely dark, so I could easily get into a firing position before turning on my gun light. You flick the light on and if it's someone you know, you don't shoot. If it's someone you don't know on the other hand...
I think that is the point. If you don't have a light, that person you think is an intruder might be your teenager crawling back in the window at 3am, or your wife who couldn't sleep and went outside to get some air and is slipping back in. For those reasons, shooting at shadows is a REALLY bad idea.

I have a light on my primary HD gun, for that reason.
 
First of all, you should generally avoid house clearing. Second, if you don't have any kids, it should be fast to check if your wife is there.

I know far too little about lights to comment.
 
While it's true that you can see shapes and figures in the dark (because it's never totally dark), you can never be sure what that figure is until you light it up. I wouldn't turn on my light right away but when I have a target in sight, light it up. That does 3 things: 1) allows you to identify the target with certainty 2) take better aim on that target 3) blinds the target completely. If you've ever taken a hit (not literally) from a maglight or other powerful flashlight in the dark, you realize how blinding and disorienting it can be.

I would never, ever shoot anything unless I was totally sure what or who it was. Just my 2 cents.
 
Jorg said:
There's a reason most lights are equipped with a momentary switch that can be operated without shifting your hands about.

This.

Shooting at someone in your house without lighting them up first to make sure is, in my opinion, irresponsible.

Invest in a proper weapon light with a momentary switch and get the best of both worlds. Sneak up in them in the dark, then light them up to make sure it is really someone you want to shoot.
 
I'm not comfortable C the idea of clearing my home in the dark. The layout of my home is such that all traffic must funnel into the DR or LR both are backlit and both can be covered from the MBR door which is situated perpedicular to both rooms offering true cover in the form of the door jam.

My strategy would be to remain just inside the MRB door (children long since grown and gone) wife dialing 911 & the flashlight (no name Walmart brand $11.00 but it blinded the wife from across the room) pointed eye level and let them come to me.
 
Thanks guys, I definitely agree now. Don't know why I had a mental block of the flashlight on all the time :banghead:

So, I'm thinking combo flashlight/laser both on the same switch somewhere on the grip? Is this sort of thing available? Guess it's time to head back to Bass Pro or Gander Mtn and check what's out there (not that I need much excuse anyways)
 
The thing that finally got me to sway to flashlight was when I saw just how powerful they are nowdays. A momentary flash totally blinds the badguy which gives you time to assess or kill. It does not give away where you are because you can move right or left after the flash.

I have several small ones that I carry with me that are also good tools to punch with. They will also blind in bright daylight. So pull your light from your pocket, blind him then decide what needs to be done.

There is also a lightfighter forum and they can give you lots of advice
 
See
Identify
Shoot / don’t shoot.

You need to see the “target” so that you can identify it as friend or foe, only then can you make the decision to shoot or not.

I’m all for the gun mounted light and using as the situation requires (momentary switch). Your night vision will not be as badly impaired as the BG who has the light in his eyes.
 
I know there will other opinions on here, but this would be my light of choice for on the gun. 130 lumens is very bright.

And yes, the light goes on only when you want to identify the target.

HPIM0424.jpg
 
I feel like I have pretty good vision in the dark compared to others I've been around and I certainly would not pull the trigger until I was 100% sure what / who I was shooting at, and you can't do that in the dark.

I second the TLR1 / TLR2 - for the price - picked one up at midwayusa fro 89 + shipping - it's a great light.

Thankfully I have never been in the situation where I have felt threatened in the home, but my thought is not to use the light until I have contact with potential intruder - not only do I not want to give up my position with the light, but I don't want to compromise my own night vision until I absolutely have to. Plus I have two large dogs that stay in the house with us that can be used for flushing out purposes :)
 
Personaly it just gives the BG something to aim at. But that's just me, I also don't go looking for them either.
 
^-------

practice with weak hand flash control/aiming. if BG fires at lite is is better your arm be at risk than your center of mass
 
Personaly it just gives the BG something to aim at.

No. That's why one doesn't just turn on a flashlight and stand there. That's why the light is used to identify the target and shoot if needed. If no target, the light goes off and you move. They won't be aiming at 130 lumens.
 
We have a dog and he would be going off, but after dark he's liable to sound off on anyone who isn't a family member, even if it's a friend or relative who's visiting, and since he doesn't speak English I can't ask him who it is.
I'd use a flashlight, for sure. The brighter the better, and a momentary switch is mandatory. Whether you want a light mounted on your gun is a matter of personal preference, but I think trying to identify someone in the dark is just too dangerous, both to me and to them.
 
Personaly it just gives the BG something to aim at.

As others have mentioned, you don't just stand there. Also if this is really a concern, you can use a handgun and a flashlight separately in a modified FBI stance (Gun in strong hand, light in off-hand away from your body).
 
Personaly it just gives the BG something to aim at.

Want to give that a go in a Force on Force scenario? I think you will find that gun mounted lights when used properly allow you to dominate an opponent.

Surefire used to get a lot of crap because they would be scenarios where they would utter dominate the students in FoF by using weapon mounted lights, and good tactics. While I disagree with the idea of having every scenario like that, I think that one or two butt kickings on an untrained skeptic can show them the light (no pun intended).
 
Flashlight, all the way.

No way I am going to shoot at something I have not properly ID'd - that goes against everything I've ever been taught about firearms. Like people have said before, you don't turn the sucker on and go wandering around the house...you activate it once you are lined up on the target. And for those of you who say it just gives them something to shoot at...if it's the middle of the night, and I flash you in the eyes with my Surefire, all you're going to be able to do is wonder why your brain feels like it's melting (I tried this on myself, just to see how effective a good light was...and yeah, it works). I did this on one of my roommates a couple years ago...he came home drunk, lost his keys, and found his way in through the kitchen window. Since he wasn't the stealthiest intruder, I was ready and waiting on the other side, and lit him up as soon as his feet hit the floor. Case in point of why a light is handy. He couldn't do anything but yelp and squint and fall into the fridge, I was able to realize the target was my stupid roommate and not a threat, and the situation ended right there.

The light stays off until you're ready to engage the target, the light goes on, you ID the target, you make the decision to shoot or not.

And before anyone roasts me for the unlocked window - this is why I don't have roommates anymore.
 
My take: Part I

Flashlight or Stealth?

1.Why do you have a firearm?
2.Why do you have a flashlight?
3.What do hope to accomplish with either, or both?


Preface: Software, not hardware.

My lessons with using light started very very young. The flashlight was a chrome, C cell, with glass lens, hanger ring on the butt, and had the on-off-intermittent switch.

The other light was a 90* light as issued and used in the Military, Boy Scouts also used this style of light.
This light also had a glass lens, and had the intermittent switch.
I really like the Intermittent switch.

No, you don't understand, I WILL have another another flashlight with an intermittent switch.

Stealth:

Back then the intermittent switch was used for Morse Code, and for S&T such as having red cellophane over the lens and being able to "sneak a peek" without affecting night vision, such as reading a map.

Communications are a very useful tool in staying safe. Not only from defending from evil, also for summoning help, coordinating where evil is, and where good guys need to be, or evade to, etc...

It ain't the Flashlight , instead Mindset, Skillset, "then" Toolset.
I admit I do not know Morse Code as I once did. I also understand the Military does not use/teach/ Morse code as they once did.
I bow to those in the Military to clarify and correct me in this regard.




First off,
J.Q.Public does not have a duty to run toward evil. Professionals, such as LEO, Military, Fire, Search & Rescue, Wildlife and some other Professionals.

Second, clearing any structure is extremley dangerous, and is NOT recommended.
What is recommended is training and quality practice if one chooses to clear a structure - or- chooses to use a light on any firearm, for any reason.

i.e. although one may live in a jurisdiction where one does not have to retreat, they choose to do so, and evil comes to where they have retreated.

i.e power is out due to weather events and being armed.

i.e. Fire.
Fireman and fire women have training in clearing structures and use of flashlights.
Even so, they do suffer serious injury and even die.
How many J.Q.Public's a year run back into a structure to save another person, or pet, and die each year?

I do not care what kind of flashlight, how expensive it is, or how bright it is, without proper Training and quality Practice, that flashlight will not keep you safe just because you have one.

I am not going to share <wink> I was really wittle with my 1911 looking dart gun, and my wittle miniature flashlight that wooked like that two C cell the adults were using and I "wanted to do that".
Yeah well I missed my wittle target about 3 feet away. The target I never missed, in /with light, but in the dark, I missed.
Mentors grinned, and said what they always did: "Young'un, what did you learn ?"

I "learnt" my flashlight was not as good as theirs, so I said.
( I wanted that C cell jobbie)
Yeah well it was not the light, it was me as I missed with the C cell jobbie too.

Why a C cell? C cells are smaller in diameter and fit hands better. One gets "stuff" the smaller person in a setting can use effectively.
A bigger person can use smaller "stuff" effectively, whereas a smaller person cannot always effectively use bigger "stuff" or heavier "stuff".

This rule still applies, as I know folks that adhere to this rule today, including some Staff and other Members of THR, and other Fora.

My lessons were with these C cell chrome lights with intermittent switch and revolvers.
I started out with .22 revolvers. Then to a Model 10 with wax bullets, then mild target loads/ 148 gr wad cutters, and then the loading of standard pressure 158 gr, LSWC.

Learning to shoot a revolver instills correct basic fundamentals that transition to other platforms.
When it was time to learn about flashlights, Mentors had me do again how I learned to shoot, adding the flashlight.

For a time reference, I was born in the 50's.
 
Last edited:
My take: Part II

Note: I am only using this video as a reference.

Smith & Wesson's Thunder Ranch Defense .45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYghKoWgMnE

I have some approximate times I want folks to pay attention to, as these are relevant to this thread.

2:04 - the gold bead front sight.
2:30 - light
3:49 - DO NOT apply tactics in the home. If one chooses to use lights, get professional training.
5:10 - Get out of my house, go away, I have called police...
5:30 - Use Sights - not light.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top