Fleet Farm Gun Policy

[crm7290]

Hey Guys. I'm new here and this is my first post. I'm a resident of the good old state of Illinois.... But I live in Minnesota for college. I have my foid card and was going to go buy my first gun (A Marlin 22lr) from Fleet Farm. I looked all of the 22s that interested me over and decided on the Marlin. I gave the man my F.O.I.D card and he refused to sell me the firearm.

I know that it is legal to buy a long gun in Minnesota if you are an Illinois resident as Cabelas will do it and they have this on their website:
Residents of IL can purchase long guns in any state provided they posses a valid IL FOID (Firearms Owners Identification Card) and observe the 24 hour waiting period as is mandated by IL law. so i know that it is not a legal issue. I spoke to the store manager and he told me that it was against store policy. I requested to see the store policy in writing and he could not show me anything. He told me to drive 30 minutes to the nearest Gander Mountain (which is in Wisconsin) and buy there but they haven't opened after their move, plus there's the added cost of 2 trips out of town.

Fleet Farm is one of 2 stores in this town that I know of that sells firearms; the other is selling used Marlin 22s for the exact price that I could get them new at Fleet Farm.

Does anyone know if there is anything that I can do about this stores policy besides emailing customer support? I will be putting a call through in the morning to them to file a complaint.

I'm not stopped from purchasing for legal reasons just because of store policy. Should they be able to refuse a legal sale for no reason other than residency? I will not be doing any business with them in the future which is unfortunate as I buy a lot of fishing gear from them.

 

[pikid89]

its a private business...they can refuse a sale to whomever they damn well please...wal mart refused me a shotgun sale because i took a phone call near the gun counter and was talking about the gun i wanted

protest with your wallet, (unless they decide to make amends and give you a discount lol)...but make sure you tell them why

 

[Davek1977]

A FFL can refuse a sale for any reason he or she sees fit. They are not in any way LEGALLY OBLIGATED to sell you any firearm at any time, regardless of the law, or store policy. Any attempts to "make" them see you a gun will likely be met with ridicule, as they are under no obligation to sell a gun to anyone.

 

[chieftain]

Showing your FOID card told him you were NOT or probably not a resident of the State of Minnesota. That would give him a reasonable reason to refuse the sale legitimately and probably as a point of LAW, that ATF as of late has been much more aggressive in persecuting FFL dealers here in Arizona.

If you are a legal resident of Minnesota, don't be showing legal documents from different states. It just raises questions, that don't need to be raised at time of a legal purchase of a firearm.

This ain't about your feelings, this is about a FFL trying to keep his license.

Study hard at school.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[Buck Snort]

Don't EXPECT the world you live in to be run in a logical manner and life will be a lot easier!

 

[crm7290]

They definitely aren't acting logically about this... According to what I've read, namely FFL newsletter 2011-02 it is a legal sale. I don't even think he was worried about his FFL he just said it was store policy not to. Ill just take my business elsewhere and get ripped off.

Technically I am a resident of MN as far as fishing/hunting licenses go. I will wait for clarification from the ATF about using a fishing/hunting license as my id.

Hunting licenses may serve as a valid identification, for the purposes of the Brady Law, 18 U.S.C. 922(t) provided the license meets the definition. As with other identification documents, hunting licenses may be supplemented with other government issued identification. Clarification on this topic is forthcoming.

On a side note my friend offered to sell me his old 22 for 80 bucks so I might have to take him up on that. Save the money and not give FF any of my money either.

 

[Thiokol]

Illinois law only allows you to purchase a long gun in a contiguous state, meaning a state that shares a border with Illinois. Here's the exact wording:

65/3a. Reciprocity.

(a) Any resident of Illinois who has obtained a firearm owner's identification card pursuant to this Act and who is not otherwise prohibited from obtaining, possessing or using a firearm may purchase or obtain a rifle or shotgun or ammunition for a rifle or shotgun in Iowa, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin or Kentucky.

 

[EOD Guy]

You are a Minnesota resident while you are attending school in that State. A student ID card should provide proof of residence if you are going to a State operated university.

 

[Sam1911]

The ATF says...

Q: What constitutes residency in a State?

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]

On a side note my friend offered to sell me his old 22 for 80 bucks so I might have to take him up on that. Save the money and not give FF any of my money either.

Just make sure your friend is a bona fide resident of the same state you are. Otherwise, felonies for both of you.

 

[dirtykid]

Would have to agree with the store this time, they have the right to refuse a sale to anyone for whatever reason they deem relevant,However like someone else said,you also have the right to spend your money elsewhere,, Around our area we have had a large batch of "transplants" making their way into our area from the chicago-area to reap the liberal welfare benefits we offer to just about anyone, (transplants usually arrive in cars with 22" wheels and pants dragging around their knees) so i could understand an employee's hesitation to sell any firearm to them,,, maybe your local FF has had similar problem,, I watched a girl purchase a mossberg home-defense shotgun (500-series with short barell) and thought, boy she's taking her self-defense pretty seriously,, only to see her in parking lot driving away with 2-gangsta lookin dudes,,, Im guessing she wasnt there to get that gun for herself,, Anybody from Mn know a local small-shop he could spend his money at ??

 

[tyeo098]

The ATF says...



Just make sure your friend is a bona fide resident of the same state you are. Otherwise, felonies for both of you.

College students have dual-residency as decreed by the all powerful BATFE

27 CFR 178.11: MEANING OF TERMS

An out-of-State college student may establish residence in a State by residing and maintaining a home in a college dormitory or in a location off-campus during the school term.

ATF Rul. 80-21

"State of residence" is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 178.11 as the State in which an individual regularly resides or maintains a home. The regulation also provides an example
of an individual who maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. The individual regularly resides in State X except for the summer months and in State Y for the summer
months of the year. The regulation states that during the time the individual actually resides in State X he is a resident of State X, and during the time he actually resides in State Y he is a resident of State Y.

Applying the above example to out-of-State college students it is held, that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or at an off-campus location they are considered residents of the State where the dormitory or off-campus home is located. During the time out-of-State college students actually reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home State.

[ATFB 1980-4 25]

 

[Sam1911]

Yes! Exactly. That's the way I did it when I was in college. (That wasn't clear, was it?)

Having said that, I was also refused a sale at a dealer when I was in college and there wasn't anything I could do about it.

 

[crm7290]

cheiftan: Please go to the ATF website and download the February 2011 newsletter. Go to the part about contiguous states. Specifically:

ATF does not read State laws that refer to “contiguous states” as prohibiting sales of long guns to residents of noncontiguous states unless the language contained in that State’s law expressly prohibits residents from acquiring fire- arms outside that State. Thus, if the language in the State laws authorizes sales of long guns to residents of contiguous states, that State law also authorizes the sale of long guns to residents of all other states.

Then refer to Thiokol's quote of Illinois law on reciprocity amongst contiguous states:

65/3a. Reciprocity.

(a) Any resident of Illinois who has obtained a firearm owner's identification card pursuant to this Act and who is not otherwise prohibited from obtaining, possessing or using a firearm may purchase or obtain a rifle or shotgun or ammunition for a rifle or shotgun in Iowa, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin or Kentucky.

Do you see any "language contained in that State’s law [that] expressly prohibits residents from acquiring fire- arms outside that State?" I do not see it in there. Therefore the ATF is satisfied in that regard and should wouldn't be "more aggressively persecuting" anyone. Thank you Thiokol for you showing the exact wording.

Cabelas, which is a very reputable business that deals heavily in firearms, allows the sales but they are two hours away and I would have to stay overnight. This is a quote from their website : "Residents of IL can purchase long guns in any state provided they posses a valid IL FOID (Firearms Owners Identification Card) and observe the 24 hour waiting period as is mandated by IL law"

Dirtykid: I’m a FIB, I know. I drive like one too with one moving violation to my name. But I am not a “transplant” as you say. I am not here to collect your hard earn tax dollars through food stamps. I am here to attend a four-year college. I’m a state employee as a matter of fact. Those “transplants” are taking my money just like they are taking yours. I drive a car that I am myself paying for while putting myself through college and being in numerous clubs. I’m a functioning member of society. I do agree that there is a lot of crappy people coming from Chicago and I came here to try to get away from that.

I do know of a gun shop considered to be good in town but I will not purchase a used firearm for the price of a brand new one. I want a 22 because they are cheap and their ammo is incredibly cheap.

Tyeo : That is interesting to know about dual residency. I will bring that up with the manager next time I am in the store.

This being said my feelings are not hurt in the slightest. When I go trout fishing tomorrow I will be heading to the nearest town in Wisconsin to Fleet Farms competition to purchase the 22 there then find some nice trout streams near it and fish until dark. Friday I will do the same. Ill even buy the fly rod I was going to buy at Fleet Farm there. Ill takes my future business to the more expensive local bait shops or better yet Walmart!

 

[oerllikon]

are you by chance talking about the FF in winona, and the gander in onalaska? They open the 14th, but i strongly prefer wiebke on rose street in lacrosse by taco johns. Just saying, I have had nothing but positive things to say about them

 

[crm7290]

You betcha. I was hoping someone would know when gander opened. Are you sure it was the 14th? That's today, assuming you take the fact that its 1:15 in the morning into account. The website had nothing about it on the store locator section other than it was at the old location. I was also going to try Farm and Fleet near Bufalo Wild Wings, and kill two birds with one stone while there.

Wiebke you say? Im searching for them online right now. Wiebke fur company is all that comes up for me. THe website doesn't show much about anything really. Can you varify that it is the right place before I go over there tomorrow?

 

[crm7290]

Little Update guys. I went to a couple gunshops in Wisconsin with no luck on cheap new 22s. I called Farm and Fleet to ask if they sold guns, the response was no you should try Walmart.

Went to walmart and there were no 22s besides one called a cricket. Looked over at the shotgun rack and saw a Mossberg 500 for 217 dollars.

I am now the proud owner of a Mossberg 500 fake wood shotgun and couldn't be happier,excluding tomorrow when I can actually shoot it. I told them about the 24 hour waiting period, they said that's an Illinois thing and walked me out. They are slightly misinformed but that's on them not me.

Thanks for looking through the thread sorry if I came off sounding like my feelings were hurt. I learned a lot and was knowledgable about my purchase.

 

[isc]

go down and get a Mn DL.

 

[crm7290]

I want to but I dont want to lose the health insurance through my family. I need some more extensive work done on my front tooth after a basketball incident and there is no way I could get my tooth fixed without that. Plus my car insurance will almost double if I am my own head of household and I wont be able to afford my car payment and insurance.

There's some other stuff too that I couldn't think of but I have my gun now so I'm not too worried about it anymore.

 

[Sam1911]

I told them about the 24 hour waiting period, they said that's an Illinois thing and walked me out. They are slightly misinformed but that's on them not me.

Not entirely.

They clearly broke federal law: (US Code TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 44, § 922)

b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

Now, why you are NOT off the hook for it comes in

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

So, it follows, if the sale was not conducted in strict accordance with the laws of both states, you break the law if you take it back into your home state.

 

[Frozen North]

A foid card may as well be a baseball card here in MN. You need a state issued ID to buy a gun here. There are also no waiting periods of any kind. You fill out the form, give them your ID, and they go phone big brother for permission. If the government says it's OK, you walk out with a rifle.

Its that simple... sounds like you need a state issued MN ID card or DL. No one is gonna sell you a gun without one.

By the way... What town is this Fleet Farm in?

 

[razorback2003]

The FFL in MN sounds like he cannot sell a long gun to an IL resident because it would be in violation of IL law. It appears residents of IL can only by long guns from dealers in states that border IL, like Kentucky or Indiana.

I live in Tennessee and can generally buy long guns at FFL's in most states because Tennessee does not add any restriction on top of federal law. If I was in Wyoming or Minnesota, I could buy a long gun from a dealer.

I hope this information helps. The only hope you may have is changing your state residency when it comes to buying firearms easier in another state. That is a big hassle. You might want to just drive to a state that borders Illinois and buy.

 

[EOD Guy]

I told them about the 24 hour waiting period, they said that's an Illinois thing and walked me out. They are slightly misinformed but that's on them not me.

Not entirely.

They clearly broke federal law: (US Code TITLE 18, PART I, CHAPTER 44, § 922)

No, he didn't. He is a college student attending school in Minnesota. As long as he is attending school there, he is considered a Minnesota resident under Federal law for purchasing firearms. Illinois law has no bearing.

 

[Brad5192]

One could say that Fleet Farm is against the 2nd Amendment so with that said it should not matter where you are from to buy a firearm as long as you are a good u.s. citizen.

 

[crm7290]

Razor back read my previous post that was addresed towards cheiftan. That is from the BATF and says that it is not Illegal unless there is specific wording against it. Therefore it is not prohibited.

All the local gun stores will sell me long guns. I have gone in and talked to them about it but they didnt have anything that I was interested in there.

It may or may not have been illegal for me to take that gun out without the waiting period. I do not know but I did notify them about that waiting period and they said that there is no waiting period there. I did my best to try to inform them.

Sam, I am not seeing anything that I did wrong in your post. I legally purchased the firearm. They told me I could take it. That quote really didnt have anything to do with the waiting period at all.

 

[Sam1911]

No, he didn't. He is a college student attending school in Minnesota. As long as he is attending school there, he is considered a Minnesota resident under Federal law for purchasing firearms. Illinois law has no bearing.

But he told them he was an IL resident, needing to go through the IL waiting period. As I read it, he didn't tell them he was a MN resident.

crm7290,

What I'm proposing would be illegal is this:

You tell them "I'm an IL resident. IL allows me to purchase a long gun in WI, but I have to go through a waiting period."
They say, "No waiting period here, take the gun now."

That's a violation of title 18, chapter 44, part 1, section 922,b(3) because IL law was not followed. They are at fault.

IF they make a sale to you that is not legal, then you break title 18, chapter 44, part 1, section 922, a(3) if you bring it back to your state of residence.

Now, if you told them turthfully that you're a MN resident, then they can sell you the gun as long as they follow both MN and WI law. But why would you bring up the waiting period, then?