Fleet Farm Gun Policy

[NavyLCDR]

In summary, it would be a 100% completely legal transaction for the OP to purchase the rifle/shotgun in MN either:

1. As an Illinois resident, with his Illinois Driver's License and FOID and 24 hour wating period

OR

2. As a Minnesota resident, with his Illinois Driver's License as proof of identification and another government issued document showing his current residence in Minnesota such as a hunting/fishing license, MN State University admission papers, etc.

What happened at Wal Mart was illegal because he purchased the rifle/shotgun as an Illinois resident, listing Illinois as his state of residence on the form 4473 and then did not complete the transaction in accordance with Illinois state law (no waiting period).

If he wanted to buy the rifle/shotgun as a Minnesota resident, he would list Minnesota as his state of residence on the form 4473, his Illinois driver's license would be recorded in Block 20a of the form 4473, and his other document establishing Minnesota residence would be recorded in Block 20b of the form 4473.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

Look at page #5 of the instructions ^^^^.

Pages 126 and 127 of this document:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

will tell you that the ATF considers a college student to be a resident of the state they are going to college in as well as their "home" state of residence.

razorback2003, Frozen North, and chieftan, you happen to be misinformed.

BTW, crm7290....

You are not responsible for violating the waiting period, the FFL is because of 18 USC 922 (b)(3):

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

 

[NavyLCDR]

After private discussion with Sam1911, I might just have to agree with him that taking the shotgun back to Illinois might violate 18 USC 922 (a)(3) because the buyer KNEW the transaction did not comply with Illinois state law as required by 18 USC 922 (b)(3).

BTW, the buyer did not violate Illinois State law, even if the transaction occurred in IL, because IL state law places the waiting period requirement on the seller, not on the buyer. But the buyer KNEW the MN dealer was violating IL state law, and that might make him culpable for violating 18 USC 922 (a)(3).

I fully understand a MN dealer's total disdain for the IL waiting period requirement and, I too, would be irate at having to comply with another state's law. But that doesn't change the legality of it.

 

[B1gGr33n]

I don't see any way a person COULDN'T in some way/shape/form break a law in this scenario. So many "If's", "buts", and "except for" it's no wonder lawyers need so many paralegals :banghead:

 

[chieftain]

I don't see any way a person COULDN'T in some way/shape/form break a law in this scenario. So many "If's", "buts", and "except for" it's no wonder lawyers need so many paralegals

This was and is my point. It is hard enough for a FFL to keep track of the law. In theory we are all using the same Federal law. On technical issues were not.

Often different ATF agents inflict different details on different FFL's in a given area. Much to much room for interpretation of the law. This same problem often applies to the FFL's own State.

Complicate it with an additional states law's and requirements and things can get dicey.

IN Arizona right now, California has been trying to inflict itself on Arizona FFL's. California has brought Suit and IIRC one criminal action upon Arizona dealers. these laws and regulations are in constant flux. I could understand both local mom & Pop shops just avoid the potential additional problems of selling to an individual without going through a FFL in the buyers state. The big box stores, Wally World, Cabela's etc risk is built around some rather uninformed hired help that have a hard time tying their shoes, let alone follow Gun laws with their very technical and complicated issues.

Possibly not an issue of law but an issue of risk management. Easily solved by refusing to sell a gun to anyone with a possible if not actual complication. Arizona FFL's have been hit pretty hard. We have had individuals visited by ATF/FBI for buying multiple guns in a given period too.

One of the additional benefits of being a Border state. And a Border state that the Administration is trying to politically break. The incompetent Homeland Security Secretary was our incompetent Governor.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[Greg528iT]

Basically after reading most of this, if I was a Fleet Farm manager, I would risk pissing off the occasional college student to not have the headache of dealing with it.

 

[chieftain]

Basically after reading most of this, if I was a Fleet Farm manager, I would risk pissing off the occasional college student to not have the headache of dealing with it.

BINGO!

Go figure.

Fred

 

[crm7290]

I see where hes coming from. I actually have a response from fleet farm. The guy gave me credit to the store so I bought a trout net for 12 bucks. He let me know that there are legal ways to purchase and he will inform me of them when the time comes. I will not be purchasing a gun until July, but that will be a handgun when I go home for my birthday. And it will be in Illinois.