BerettaNut92
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Any practical differences in weight, handling and accuracy between a 16" AR-15 fluted heavy barrel or an M4 profile barrel?
Fluted Heavy barrel vs M4-Profile Barrel
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dav
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Skunk,
The fluted barrel looks better, in my opinion.
Therefore it will be more accurate.
(dang, couldn't even keep a straight face while typing that...)
The fluted barrel looks better, in my opinion.
Therefore it will be more accurate.
(dang, couldn't even keep a straight face while typing that...)
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
A fluted 16" HBAR weighs about 2.5lbs. A 16" M4 barrel weighs about 2.2lbs.
I haven't been able to spot in any practical differences in accuracy or handling. To me it feels like the M4 barrel swings a bit easier; but it is such a small amount that I'd say it is subjective at best. I haven't run any tests to confirm if that is the case.
I haven't been able to spot in any practical differences in accuracy or handling. To me it feels like the M4 barrel swings a bit easier; but it is such a small amount that I'd say it is subjective at best. I haven't run any tests to confirm if that is the case.
BerettaNut92
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FWIW, looks don't matter since it'll be on a Dissipator model.
Does 3oz make a big difference considering it's past arm's length?
Does 3oz make a big difference considering it's past arm's length?
Stinkyshoe
Member
I have been thinking about this one myself lately. I think the m4 would be been as far a gun to carry coyote hunting because the muzzlebrake would protect the rifling from getting dinged.
Are you thinking of getting a fluted dissapator?
Are you thinking of getting a fluted dissapator?
I don't think you're going to notice the 3 oz. FWIW I am unconvinced that you gain anything except for weight loss with a fluted barrel. It would boil down to cost between the two for me.
Jeff
Jeff
Joe Demko
Member
I have a 16" fluted carbine (Bushmaster) that has been utterly satisfactory. If the issue is weight, I'd go with whichever is cheaper, since you aren't going to mount a grenade launcher. Are you?
BerettaNut92
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No plans to add grenade launcher (are they legal in Arizona?)
Jeff, when you say not gain anything do you mean from the standard heavy barrel or from the M4 barrel?
What is there to gain from a heavy barrel and a fluted heavy barrel?
I guess it's clear now I'm a complete moron when it comes to rifles.
Jeff, when you say not gain anything do you mean from the standard heavy barrel or from the M4 barrel?
What is there to gain from a heavy barrel and a fluted heavy barrel?
I guess it's clear now I'm a complete moron when it comes to rifles.
Skunky,
I meant I could see no advantage to the fluted barrel. I have read all the claims about better cooling because of more surface area, and I've also heard that they are stiffer. I don't know of many machine gun barrels that are fluted. That would seem to say that the extra cooling isn't all that much of a benefit. As for a stiffer barrel, I don't know many people who shoot well enough to take advantage of this slight improvement.
The same goes for a heavy barrel. Heavy barrels are pushed by the manufacturers because they are cheaper to produce. A lot less machine time involved. We are talking about a 16" carbine here. It's supposed to be light and handy. Why put a heavy barrel on it and destroy those charactoristics? You don't have to worry about heating up a barrel to the point you'll damage it with a semi auto anyway. I have heard a rumor that the addition of the heavy barrel on the M4A1 was not due to a large problem with the M4 barrel on full auto, but that a certain HSLD unit went to the range to burn ammo and really seriously abused their M4A1s and then filed a QDR (Quality Deficiencey Report) to CYA. Don't know if it's true or not, but makes sense.
Jeff
I meant I could see no advantage to the fluted barrel. I have read all the claims about better cooling because of more surface area, and I've also heard that they are stiffer. I don't know of many machine gun barrels that are fluted. That would seem to say that the extra cooling isn't all that much of a benefit. As for a stiffer barrel, I don't know many people who shoot well enough to take advantage of this slight improvement.
The same goes for a heavy barrel. Heavy barrels are pushed by the manufacturers because they are cheaper to produce. A lot less machine time involved. We are talking about a 16" carbine here. It's supposed to be light and handy. Why put a heavy barrel on it and destroy those charactoristics? You don't have to worry about heating up a barrel to the point you'll damage it with a semi auto anyway. I have heard a rumor that the addition of the heavy barrel on the M4A1 was not due to a large problem with the M4 barrel on full auto, but that a certain HSLD unit went to the range to burn ammo and really seriously abused their M4A1s and then filed a QDR (Quality Deficiencey Report) to CYA. Don't know if it's true or not, but makes sense.
Jeff
Badger Arms
Member
There's a great deal of misinformation and confusion about fluted barrels. I'll break it down to a few facts:
1) For any given weight, a fluted barrel will be stiffer than a standard barrel. Due to its greater surface area, it will also dissipate heat better.
2) For a given diameter, fluted barrels will be less stiff, but lighter than their unfluted counterpart.
Some factors tend to negate the positive effects of fluted barrels. First, barrel cooling is nice between strings, but it's not the only factor in the heat dissipation curve. A Heavy barrel might dissipate heat slower, but it absorbs more heat and doesn't get as hot in the first place for a given string of rounds. The Weight (Mass) of a barrel is the most important factor to consider with the majority of shooting situations. A very thick barrel will soak up more energy allowing you to shoot more rounds in a short period of time before the barrel gets too hot.
Another factor to consider is bore temperature. When you are speaking accuracy, you speak about barrel temperature, but bore temperature is critical to the life of a firearm. The reason most MG barrels aren't fluted is because it takes MASS to soak up all of the heat that's being generated on the surface of the bore. There would only be a slight advantage for an air-cooled MG to allow the barrel to cool down quicker. This advantage doesn't really justify the extra cost associated.
The final factor I'll illustrate is the airspace factor. A radically fluted surface such as a car radiator will only transfer heat to the air if there is sufficient air flowing over the cooling surfaces. The difference in heat transfer on a weapon (which usually has less than 10mph air flow over its surface) with or without flutes is nominal and tends to negate many of the theoretical benefits of fluting. Couple that with handguards which block the wind and your looking at, WAG here, about a 5% increase in cooling per weight with about a 10-20% decrease in the time it will take the barrel to heat up due to its reduced mass.
Where the Fluting comes into its own is if you have the money to spend and want a lighter barrel. The acid test for me... I bought a heavy-profile barrel. I'm a firm believer that barrel mass is the most important factor in cooling. Handling is subjective, but I like the way my RRA heavy profile barrel handles. Accuracy? I don't see as that is as much a factor of profile over the quality of the barrel.
1) For any given weight, a fluted barrel will be stiffer than a standard barrel. Due to its greater surface area, it will also dissipate heat better.
2) For a given diameter, fluted barrels will be less stiff, but lighter than their unfluted counterpart.
Some factors tend to negate the positive effects of fluted barrels. First, barrel cooling is nice between strings, but it's not the only factor in the heat dissipation curve. A Heavy barrel might dissipate heat slower, but it absorbs more heat and doesn't get as hot in the first place for a given string of rounds. The Weight (Mass) of a barrel is the most important factor to consider with the majority of shooting situations. A very thick barrel will soak up more energy allowing you to shoot more rounds in a short period of time before the barrel gets too hot.
Another factor to consider is bore temperature. When you are speaking accuracy, you speak about barrel temperature, but bore temperature is critical to the life of a firearm. The reason most MG barrels aren't fluted is because it takes MASS to soak up all of the heat that's being generated on the surface of the bore. There would only be a slight advantage for an air-cooled MG to allow the barrel to cool down quicker. This advantage doesn't really justify the extra cost associated.
The final factor I'll illustrate is the airspace factor. A radically fluted surface such as a car radiator will only transfer heat to the air if there is sufficient air flowing over the cooling surfaces. The difference in heat transfer on a weapon (which usually has less than 10mph air flow over its surface) with or without flutes is nominal and tends to negate many of the theoretical benefits of fluting. Couple that with handguards which block the wind and your looking at, WAG here, about a 5% increase in cooling per weight with about a 10-20% decrease in the time it will take the barrel to heat up due to its reduced mass.
Where the Fluting comes into its own is if you have the money to spend and want a lighter barrel. The acid test for me... I bought a heavy-profile barrel. I'm a firm believer that barrel mass is the most important factor in cooling. Handling is subjective, but I like the way my RRA heavy profile barrel handles. Accuracy? I don't see as that is as much a factor of profile over the quality of the barrel.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Skunkabilly - I didn't realize you were talking a 16" Dissy barrel - those are heavier than a normal 16" barrel because the thicker HBAR portion under the handguard is longer and the weight of the gas block under the handguards.
I don't know how much heavier a fluted 16" Dissy would be; but an unfluted 16" Dissy HBAR is 0.3lbs (4.8oz) heavier than an unfluted standard 16" HBAR.
I don't know how much heavier a fluted 16" Dissy would be; but an unfluted 16" Dissy HBAR is 0.3lbs (4.8oz) heavier than an unfluted standard 16" HBAR.
BerettaNut92
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Looks like the M4 profile for me then.
Now if that place'll call me back about that job.... (70% paycut, btw)
Now if that place'll call me back about that job.... (70% paycut, btw)
rock jock
Member
M4's? You must be dreaming in Kali. You might as well wish for a BMG.
As far as the AR goes, my only comment on the M4 vs. fluted barrel is purely anecdotal. My shooting partner and I both have Bushmaster carbines, his with a fluted barrel, my own in a M4gery configuration. I consistently get better groups with my rifle even though he is a better shot. This is especially true at longer distances, i.e., 200-300 yds. My rifle also handles much better.
As far as the AR goes, my only comment on the M4 vs. fluted barrel is purely anecdotal. My shooting partner and I both have Bushmaster carbines, his with a fluted barrel, my own in a M4gery configuration. I consistently get better groups with my rifle even though he is a better shot. This is especially true at longer distances, i.e., 200-300 yds. My rifle also handles much better.
I have a 14.5" fluted barrel on my Bushmaster. My buddy has the 16" RRA M4. The weight on mine feels more even, his feels front heavy. I can't tell if one is actually heavier than the other.
My bushy is more accurate than his RRA when any shooter fires both. There is less stringing between shots.
Bushmaster lists the fluted 14.5" bbl as being 2.2#, the M4 at 2.0#.
I just bought a RRA mid-length 16" bbl to add to my rifle, and I sent it to KKF to be fluted
My bushy is more accurate than his RRA when any shooter fires both. There is less stringing between shots.
Bushmaster lists the fluted 14.5" bbl as being 2.2#, the M4 at 2.0#.
I just bought a RRA mid-length 16" bbl to add to my rifle, and I sent it to KKF to be fluted
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Skunkabilly, if you still want the Dissy profile, AR15.com convinced Bushmaster to produce an M4-profile Dissy barrel some time ago. The barrels didn't sell very well and Bushmaster still has them available. So you can get the Dissy profile with M4 handling (slightly heavier due to the extra gas block; but not as much difference as the HBAR since the M4 is narrow under the handguards).
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