FN 5.7 Handgun

[Teapot]

I have never had the opportunity to shoot one but it is well designed and put together.

Why should it not be a good pistol? All bullets are designed to put a hole in a body and deprive the brain of oxygen via interrupting blood flow in one way or another. All rounds are capable of this; even the .22 short.

Many doubt the 5.7 round's efficacy but I certainly would not like to get shot with it. Trust my life with it? Yes, if I had enough training and familiarity with it. Still incredulolus? Many veterans will tell you how they disliked the 1911 as they could not hit the broad side of a barn with it. However, given enough time with the pistol it would be possible to master it eventually.

The FN57, in the hands of someone who has trained with it, is enough gun for any purpose. Of course the same can be said of any firearm and caliber.
I would buy one if I could afford the $1,500 price tag and find enough ammuniton for it. Instead, I bought a $150 Tokarev with 2,280 rounds of Czech military surplus for $250; solves the AP dilemma. And if your so inclined, make every second round in the magazine a Magsafe or file every second round into a spoon configuration as the Germans did with their new PDW;that solves the defensive round dilemma.

But the 57 is certainly a quality pistol. Any LEO to get it as his duty carry is fortunate indeed.

 

[hurrakane212]

Oh really?

Welcome to the fold, Matthew! And here's your glass of kool-aid. Its a good thing to have (after all the hate you will recieve for being a fan you'll WANT to drink it in very short order) especially when posting on forums like these.

You will find the conversation much different at fivesevenforum.com, much more civilized.
__________________

Just because some people have doubts about your preferred platform/cartridge I don't think that in any way qualifies as "uncivilized." I don't know enough about the round to make comments about its effectiveness, but I do know a little something about THR. This is a good forum, relatively free from the pissing contests that populate most forums on most topics.

Just because your premise ( 5.7 is awesome) is challenged does not infer incivility. It is debate and the conflict of ideas/methods that leads to a "civilized" society.

Of course one would find the conversation much different at fivesevenforum.com... as you would find it different at sigforums.com or xdtalk.com. If your cartridge/platform is great in your eyes (whatever that may be) then shoot it, enjoy it, and don't be "miffed" if other people feel differently.~Nathan

 

[taliv]

careful matthew! if you get one, it'll just be a matter of time before you start eyeballing a PS90.

btw, matthew, you can get a magazine extension that extends it about 1" and adds 10 rnds to the capacity. so, 20 rnds in the gun, and a 30 rnd spare on your belt, that's 50 rounds at hand. It'd take SEVEN 1911 mags to do that.

if you plan to drive through TN any time soon, PM me and you can shoot mine.

 

[real_name]

Must suppress urge to buy a FiveseveN...

One shot destroyed his pelvis and dropped him on his head like he was hit by an 800lb gorilla.

Must suppress urge to buy a FiveseveN...

I can reload a hundred rounds for less than $8.

Surrenders.

 

[Trebor]

Medula Oblongata,

I have a 5.7 and it's an interesting weapon, but I'm still a skeptic. I just got some ammo in the mail and I'll be headed to the range with the pistol on Friday. I'll reserve judgement on the "shootability" and perceived recoil until that time. Until then though, can you answer some questions for me?

First off, I am a civilian, so I am limited to the civilian legal loads. That means that any info that *only* applies to the restricted LEO/MIL loads isn't really that helpful to me.

Second, I don't reload, and I'm not going to start anytime soon. That means that any info on the great handloads that can be developed for the round is also not of any use to me. I don't really care what the *potential* of the round when using a hotrodded custom load. I only care about the practical performance of the standard commercially available civilian loads.

Third, I own the FiveseveN handgun. I do not own or plan to own a P90. Therefore I'd like to discuss the performance of the loads when fired from the handgun only.

With that in mind, you can understand why I want to limit the discussion to the commercially available, civilian legal, loads, fired from the handgun.

Either its an "over penetrator" or doesn't penetrate enough.

Do any of the civilian loads when fired out of the handgun penetrate the 12" that the FBI regards as the minimum acceptable standard? The info I've seen over at the 5.7 forum showed penetration less then that standard. (Now, if you want to dispute the validity of that 12" standard, that's another argument. It is a commonly accepted benchmark though).

The SS190 cartrige penetrates LESS than civilian legal ammo. In fact when the FN rep commented about the new SS197 sporting round that utilizes the Hornady 40grn VMax, that "this is the round we should have been making all along." While the bullet will not defeat armor, it penetrates further and creates a much larger wound profile than a solid, traditional FMJ aluminum core AP projectile.

I did notice that the 197 round penetrated further then the 195 on the tables over at the 5.7 forum. It was still less then 12", IIRC, but was a noticeable improvement over the 195. I also noticed that pretty much everyone over there reccomended the 195 for defense use. Why is that?

As far as the shooting you were involved in were you used a 5.7 Was that the handgun or the P90? What load was used? I'm betting its one of the LEO only loads, correct?

Have their been any shootings reported using any of the civilian legal loads? I would understand if all the LEO involved shootings use the LEO loads. But, as a civilian, I can't use that ammo, and assurances that the LEO rounds perform wonderfully are cold comfort to me.

How much does the civvie legal stuff actually give up when compared to the LEO/MIL loads?

For the record, I'm concerned that the light weight of the bullet will overly limit penetration in a defensive situation and I'm also concerned that the small cross-section of the bullet will make it less likely to damage a vital spot, artery, etc.

I do understand the counterargument that the high velocity creates a greater wound channel. I just don't know if that is actually the case when using only the civilian legal loads. The data from police shootings using police loads is not as helpful as data would be involving the civvie loads.

I can see the advantages in reduced recoil, and I'll get a better feeling for that after I shoot my gun, but the round still has to have good terminal performance on the target. That's where I have reservations.

 

[Manedwolf]

One question I don't think anyone has yet addressed is the unfortunate reality of a civil suit following a self-defense situation.

The attacker's deadbeat family seems to always pull a "He was a good boy, we need a million bucks to spend on booze!" garbage...and the FiveseveN has already been villified as a "cop killer" pistol in some states.

Could that be a liability if it were held up by a sleazy civil lawyer in a courtroom?

Oh, and also, regarding the Tok:

And if your so inclined, make every second round in the magazine a Magsafe or file every second round into a spoon configuration as the Germans did with their new PDW;that solves the defensive round dilemma.

I will NOT use the damned MagSafe rounds in my Tok. They just don't feel right, quality control or whatever, but they feel like they're way, way overpressure in load, dangerously so. I just think that's asking for a kaboom with a 50+ year old pistol.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I offer this just as a matter of interest only.
I like to compare bullets in water jugs, wet phone bullets, etc, and I would shoot jello to if it wasn't such a pain to fool with.
But unlike the dedicated jello shooting fans I don't make that giant leap of claiming that shooting any substance proves what a bullet will do in a person.
Shooting any substance demonstrates only how the bullet preforms in that substance.

So here is a comparison of the 5.7 and 45ACP in wet phone books.
Wet phone books appear to be a good bullet stopper considering how quickly the 45 bullets were stopped.

The SS195 turned sideways after penetrating about two inches. Then it continued sideways tearing a respectable hole through the books.

The grove across the top of the books was a SS195. The SS195 and Hornady V Max bullets hit quite far apart vertically, so my first SS195 shot was high. It's interesting to note that the bullet started to turn sideways after a few inches.

The 40gr Hornady V Max bullet's penetration depended on how well it mushroomed.

The 45ACP bullets both expanded/fragmented well but were stopped quickly.

 

[BrennanKG]

M2,

Thanks for sharing your results.

I don't suppose you're in or near San Antonio?
Like a lot of prospective FiveSeveN buyers, I'd really like to shoot one before I commit.

On a related note, does anyone know of a seller with the FiveSeveN listed below CDNN's price?


Thanks,
B.

 

[P99guy]

"So Mr. p99guy you seem to be somewhat qualified to post like that. What are your qualifications concerning the 5.7 pray tell?"-panzerMK2

lol
1. I stayed in a Holiday inn express several months ago
2. I have seen a few Mel Gibson movies
3. I have window shopped at gun stores...Hmmmm that Hi-point is a real he man cannon, wait the Bryco is really shiney.....RG for 400.00 gotta have that.
4. At the range when they say FIRE! I Stop, Drop , and Roll...they allways say go with your training.
5. and I now know when faced with a new potential next ex wife, to scream loudly "YOUR NOT MY MOMMY! LET ME GO! not get into the car with them, but stomp their foot then break away and run.

 

[M2 Carbine]

BrennanKG
I don't suppose you're in or near San Antonio?
Like a lot of prospective FiveSeveN buyers, I'd really like to shoot one before I commit.

On a related note, does anyone know of a seller with the FiveSeveN listed below CDNN's price?

Thanks,

No, I'm West of Ft Worth.

They have been selling at the gun shows around DFW in the $760 range.
I see the ammo has come down to about $18 a box.

Shooting the pistol is actually not impressive.
It's nice to shoot but it doesn't grab you like shooting something like a Kel Tec PLR-16 .223 pistol.
Not much noise or recoil and a 22 size hole.

Another thing I tried is shooting a bowling pin.
It appears that it does a good job of knocking the pin down and off the table.

 

[BrennanKG]

Bowling Pin shoots with a 5.7mm? Really? Now that's surprising.

Sub $800 pricing at shows in your area? I'm obviously going to the wrong gun shows.

Thanks,
B.

 

[Helstrm]

We shoot bowling pins with everything.. FAL, AK, Mauser, 1911 ect... Not saying we always hit the pins but they are cheap targets. Shooting the pins with a .22 is funny.. They kind of fall over slowly..

 

[M2 Carbine]

I've never shot bowling pin competition but the way it was described to me, by a shooter that was interested in knowing what the FN 5.7 would do, is the pins are positioned on a table depending on the gun used.
When hit the pin must not only be knocked over but off the table.

We set a pin up and each time we shot it with SS195 and Hornady V Max the pin was knocked backwards with enough force to have been knocked off the table.
As I recall the SS195 did better.

 

[Geronimo45]

I think it's an interesting concept, a pretty neat (though overpriced) pistol. Lightweight, light recoil, high capacity. Ammo is pricey, too. When it gets cheaper - or they come out with a five-seven in a compact(er) size (don't know how it would perform with a shorter barrel, though)... and when I get enough extra cash to spill.
Grrr... so many guns, so little money.

 

[E5]

Damn,

this thing has me intrigued.....

I pick up my new P99 .40 today and I'm thinking more about this thing.

 

[panzermk2]

It's price is right in the middle of the pack for any top shelf handgun like HK, SIG,etc.

Price on ammo is coming down to average 17 bucs for fifty rounds now that also being made in the USA. Wolf's is supposed to hit the market anyday now

 

[Trebor]

M. O.,

Thanks for the response. I'm skeptical, but I'm willing to look at the evidence. I'll see what I think about actually shooting the gun tomorrow.

 

[jlh26oo]

5. and I now know when faced with a new potential next ex wife, to scream loudly "YOUR NOT MY MOMMY! LET ME GO! not get into the car with them, but stomp their foot then break away and run.

LOL!

 

[rockstar.esq]

Seems like a lot of hubbaloo over something that just isn't much more than a .22 magnum with a better projectile. It's not like the caliber is getting any airplay with other manufacturers. My humble opinion is that it'll fade into obscurity like the .17 Remington, Trounds, and that gyrojet thing. Another take on it is that just like that Honda Hybrid from 7 years ago. New technology in an absolutely horrendously ugly wrapper doesn't exactly enamor the public. The five7 pistol is like a plastic model of some little kids idea of what works. Anyone with a normal hand can't operate the safety on it one handed. The butt ugly profile doesn't help either. There once was a .357 SIG spin off called the BAZ or somesuch. It defeated armor, steel, kevlar etc. It also fired out of an unmodified .357 sig chambered pistol. That didn't sell either so maybe I proved myself wrong. Either way I'm glad to have another interesting caliber to examine, I'm just too broke to spend the money on something that doesn't seem any more usefull than a .22Mag!

 

[Iceman711]

MO:

Why are you so quick to discredit Fackler's findings about the 5.7? Is there anyone more credible, knowledgeable, or experienced in the field of ballistics? Do you think he had errors in his testing?

 

[loki.fish]

I've had my FiveseveN for about 8 months now and haven't even put 100 rounds through it yet. It's fun to shoot and I love the pistol. I just have a hard time finding ammo locally and all the crap you have to do to order ammo through the mail turns me off of mail order stuff.

There's no felt (by me) recoil. It's extremely accurate, I mean, you have to try to miss what you're aiming for. Performance wise, I couldn't tell you what's it's capable of. Even owning the gun, I'm still a bit skeptical about it for self defense purposes. I've been a member at fivesevenforums.com since the day I bought the gun and I haven't been there since maybe 2 weeks after I registered. I've basically just been waiting for the round to become more used so I could see how well it performed. From what I can tell, it's not catching on very fast due to skepticism.

 

[jlh26oo]

Iceman- what part of this guy vaporized a pelvis with one round don't you understand?

 

[Odd Job]

what part of this guy vaporized a pelvis with one round don't you understand?

That is an exaggeration, no matter what handgun and ammunition you care to mention.

 

[jlh26oo]

That is an exaggeration, no matter what handgun and ammunition you care to mention.

Ok, ok. Not "vaporize". I got carried away. Here's what he actually said:

One shot destroyed his pelvis and dropped him on his head like he was hit by an 800lb gorilla. BTW the bullet stayed in the perp.

Now, what part of One shot destroyed his pelvis and dropped him on his head like he was hit by an 800lb gorilla don't you understand?

 

[Odd Job]

destroyed his pelvis

I'm sorry but that is also an exaggeration. You cannot destroy a pelvis with a handgun. I would bet that you cannot destroy a pelvis with a 12 gauge slug either. You can fracture some parts of it, and render it unstable, but you cannot destroy it. In fact it is very difficult to damage a pelvis with a handgun projectile, so that the target is immobilised involuntarily.