FN 5.7 as home defense gun?

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

As I've said before, if I end up buying a FiveseveN due to no other appealing choices, I'm carrying it with the safety off. I can't imagine it getting set off because of it. Glock's trigger is definitely not a problem, It's software not hardware here.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

As I've said before, if I end up buying a FiveseveN due to no other appealing choices, I'm carrying it with the safety off.

I have never heard of anybody carrying a Five-seveN USG condition zero. There is about half an inch of take up in the trigger but c'mon man...

 

[pisc1024]

What is condition zero? I've never heard of that....

 

[saturno_v]

I hope for you guys that you do not end spending money for guns chambered in calibers that end up disappearing.....

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Could you explain how the trigger could be pulled that half inch at more than 5 pounds that is bad with this gun but fine with Glocks and the like? The Beretta PX4CA has the same trigger and it doesn't have a safety.

I hope for you guys that you do not end spending money for guns chambered in calibers that end up disappearing.....

I believe the internet and world wide Military and Police usage will prevent that.

 

[Skribs]

pisc, http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm

Condition 0 = hammer ready, safety off, chamber hot. Would my XDM be condition 2 or condition 0? Anyway...GB, I agree with you that if there isn't a heavy pull or something else that will block the trigger from moving without something in the trigger guard, it is unsafe. I guess I consider the holster to be my manual safety, in that it prevents inadvertent access to the trigger.

EDIT: 527, no trigger safety and I'm guessing not quite a DAO pull.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

I'm actually looking at a 1st gen model for just under $1000. Why do you continually over exaggerate all your claims?

You may want to check this thread out on classical Five-seveN pricing...

I guess I was wrong, the DAO's can fetch 3 grand.

http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=59

This is the original Five-seveN variant. It has a DAO trigger and no safety device. It is no longer in production at all (nor was it never made available commercially), so it's extremely hard to find and may sell for over $3000. Note the old FN logo on the frame and the smaller, fixed sights.

This is the second Five-seveN variant introduced. It is the same as the first, except for a single action trigger (as opposed to the original being DAO) and the addition of a safety device on both sides of the frame. The slide release on earlier Tactical pistols was dark and of a different shape. Early Tactical pistols also had a dark safety device as can be seen in the left picture given below. Also worth noting is that the Tactical variant, which was previously restricted to law enforcement/military, was briefly made available to individual officers (under the name IOM) with capacity reduced to ten rounds by epoxying in a block of plastic in the bottom of the stack, and with serial numbers from the new IOM range (3861xxxxx). These guns were allowed into the country and a few have actually made their way to the open market. You can tell an "IOM" Tactical from a military/law enforcement only Tactical by first, the serial number is in IOM format (3861xxxxx), not Tactical format (386Mxxxxx). Secondly, the serial is embedded in a metal strip above the accessory rail instead of silk-screened onto the frame above the grip. Finally, the newer Tactical/older IOM has adjustable rear sight whereas the LE/Military Tactical had small, fixed sights (see below pictures). Five-seveN Tactical pistols are becoming rare and may sell for over $2000.

The IOM variant is similiar in its basic design to the earlier Tactical variant, but differs in having an M1913 accessory rail, lined trigger-guard front strap, magazine disconnect ("magazine safety"), and taller, adjustable sights. It is only available in single action, similar to the earlier Tactical variant. The IOM is now discontinued and NIB usually sells for well over $1000.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

EDIT: 527, no trigger safety and I'm guessing not quite a DAO pull.

Can you still explain to be how something, that doesn't even weigh an ounce, get the momentum to overcome a 5 pound (I'm guessing) spring over the distance of a half inch?

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

pisc, http://www.sightm1911.com/Care/1911_conditions.htm

Condition 0 = hammer ready, safety off, chamber hot. Would my XDM be condition 2 or condition 0? Anyway...GB, I agree with you that if there isn't a heavy pull or something else that will block the trigger from moving without something in the trigger guard, it is unsafe. I guess I consider the holster to be my manual safety, in that it prevents inadvertent access to the trigger.

EDIT: 527, no trigger safety and I'm guessing not quite a DAO pull.

I believe the conditions were created to apply to the 1911 pistol. Since your gun is supposed to be kind of a DAO like the Glock, it wouldn't really relate to the chart. I guess you could call it condition zero, but you don't have the light trigger of a 1911 (at least I don't think you do), so in reality it wouldn't be as "dangerous" as carrying a 1911 condition zero. I don't think anybody carries a 1911 cocked and safety off. I could be wrong.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

Can you still explain to be how something, that doesn't even weigh an ounce, get the momentum to overcome a 5 pound (I'm guessing) spring over the distance of a half inch?

The Five-seveN has a pretty light take up and then you are against the trigger. The travel is actually pretty short on my gun. It is a single-action gun.

But you want to know what could trigger the trigger? Nothing and everything man, your imagination is the limit. Not too long ago somebody had a gun go off and blow a hole in the seat of their car because their leather holster had worn and a piece of it caught the trigger. When they sat down... boom. Had their been a safety... no boom.

I like safeties or fairly heavy first pulls on SA/DA pistols.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

I hope for you guys that you do not end spending money for guns chambered in calibers that end up disappearing.....

I'm much more worried about O'bummer banning it. But I would be grandfathered in if there was a ban right?

If he gets reelected, I'm buying a couple more and storing them.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Not too long ago somebody had a gun go off and blow a hole in the seat of their car because their leather holster had worn and a piece of it caught the trigger. When they sat down... boom. Had their been a safety... no boom.

That was a Glock, Glocks don't have any external safeties. Are you suggesting that all M&P, Glocks, Steyr, Sigma, etc aren't being smart by having chambered rounds? I used to like guns with external safeties but I've abandoned that thinking.

I can't see anything that would make carrying a FiveseveN with the safety off more dangerous than carrying a loaded Glock, M&P, etc. Sure it doesn't have that fancy thing in the trigger but is it really necessary? I do own an XD so I have nothing against the trigger, I just don't think it's entirely necessary.

 

[saturno_v]

I believe the internet and world wide Military and Police usage will prevent that.

hmm...the round was born in 1990 and so far basically there are ony 2 firearms (from the same company that introduced the cartridge) for it....maybe couple in development stage from boutique manufacturers as far as I know)

No major ammo manufacturer (Hornady, Remchester, Fiocchi, etc..) make the thing..

Frankly it does not sound very promising at all....govermental agencies are free to spend taxpayer money in "innovative projects", we usually do not have the luxury to do the same.....

It seems to me like some sort of fad that may go away....


How pathetic the Brady campaign trying to lobby to outlaw the round....they try to cling to anything to blow out their anti gun hysteria....did anybody tell these bozos that vest piercing 9mm round have existed for quite a while??? Did anybody tell them that tyhe 5,7x28 is not an "armor piercing" round by design??? (meaning regardless of the bullet used)

 

[Bozwell]

Not to derail this thread, but our government can't even pass simple spending cuts in an amount we already agreed to just a few months ago. Do you REALLY think they can pass drastic firearm reforms and/or constitutional amendments? :lol:

As far as carrying this gun without the safety on, I would personally just practice with the safety before carrying it cocked and unlocked with a light, short travel trigger.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

hmm...the round was born in 1990 and so far basically there are ony 2 firearms (from the same company that introduced the cartridge) for it....maybe couple in development stage from boutique manufacturers as far as I know)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90#Users
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiveseven#Users

That's a lot of users for a round to just die. A Upper for AR 15s has existed for a few years, one company that has been around for a few years is creating one and other one is creating 4 guns, two pistols and two carbines all chambered for this round. 2 guns from the company that made the round is nothing. Any company can create a round and a gun for it. For it to become NATO accepted, used world wide, and different companies starting to build 5.7 chambered firearms is not the same. Even you can admit that.

 

[nathan]

Yugo M 57 is a much bette option and price wise.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Ammo for 7.62 x 25 is about the same price and comes from a gun that is "more crude", less than half the capacity, and not as accurate. When it comes to shooting, the ammo is the expensive part, not the gun.

As far as carrying this gun without the safety on, I would personally just practice with the safety before carrying it cocked and unlocked with a light, short travel trigger.

My XD has a factory 5 pound trigger and my understanding is that is the last part before the striker is released, not counting the slack. I can't see how that can be pulled.

Can someone please explain this to me how that trigger can get pulled? I would like to see an actual argument against it instead of opinion. It can't be something that can happen to a Glock as well.

 

[helitack32f1]

I just read most of this thread and I realize I missed the topic of bullet effectiveness, but I would like to know if anyone knows if any real conclusions were formulated on this rounds effectiveness in light of the Fort Hood shootings. Somewhere near 150 rounds fired, 42 people shot and of those, 13 died. Would it have been any more or less deadly had it been a different round used?

Feel free to tell me to take a hike if this is too off topic. It is something I have been wondering ever since i heard what was used at Ft Hood.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

What I want to know is why people are bringing other guns into this topic. This is a relatively simple question with a simple answer that could possibly be expanded upon and yet it became a comparison between Glocks and FiveseveNs.

That event was a testament to it's effectiveness. As I recall, two people charged Hasan and were both shot twice and both were stopped and taken out of the fight instantly.

 

[helitack32f1]

Interesting. I don't know much about what went on there beyond the basic headlines. It is a gun and round that fascinate me.

As for it being a good HD gun, well people use everything from .22 to .410 for HD. I would suspect this gun would be just as good or better than most.

 

[Bozwell]

Ammo for 7.62 x 25 is about the same price and comes from a gun that is "more crude", less than half the capacity, and not as accurate. When it comes to shooting, the ammo is the expensive part, not the gun.



My XD has a factory 5 pound trigger and my understanding is that is the last part before the striker is released, not counting the slack. I can't see how that can be pulled.

Can someone please explain this to me how that trigger can get pulled? I would like to see an actual argument against it instead of opinion. It can't be something that can happen to a Glock as well.

You're welcome to carry what you're comfortable with. I just prefer (and would recommend) something with a greater margin of error. If you opt not to carry it condition 1 (or if the gun doesn't come with a manual safety to begin with), very often the only thing preventing the gun from firing is the trigger being depressed (discounting firing pin blocks and the like for now). While we can all agree that your finger shouldn't be on the trigger until you're ready to fire - things happen. I would bet just about everyone on this forum has had or knows someone who has had a ND at some point. A bit more weight and/or take up can at least prevent some accidents from happening, and the key of course is to balance this accident/mistake prevention with your ability to accurately shoot the gun. As such, my Pro-tek has a smooth ~8lb DA pull with a fair amount of take up on the trigger, and I feel comfortable with this weapon even though it doesn't have a manual safety on it. YMMV.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

You're welcome to carry what you're comfortable with. I just prefer (and would recommend) something with a greater margin of error. If you opt not to carry it condition 1 (or if the gun doesn't come with a manual safety to begin with), very often the only thing preventing the gun from firing is the trigger being depressed (discounting firing pin blocks and the like for now). While we can all agree that your finger shouldn't be on the trigger until you're ready to fire - things happen. I would bet just about everyone on this forum has had or knows someone who has had a ND at some point. A bit more weight and/or take up can at least prevent some accidents from happening, and the key of course is to balance this accident/mistake prevention with your ability to accurately shoot the gun. As such, my Pro-tek has a smooth ~8lb DA pull with a fair amount of take up on the trigger, and I feel comfortable with this weapon even though it doesn't have a manual safety on it. YMMV.

NDs happen because the trigger was pulled. People still carry Glocks, and my current gun which is an XD, lack an external safety. I'm still yet (if ever) to have a ND and it will never be because of the gun. I've heard both sides of the argument about safeties and I've made my decision. I don't see anything wrong with it other than some people with a different opinion don't like it. Some people don't like XDs but that doesn't make it bad gun.

I know two people that have had NDs and one was because of improper loading procedures and I don't know the story of the other one. The former was with a Makarov and the latter was by an old state trooper when he was still on the force in the 70s so it was either a revolver or an automatic with a safety.

 

[fallout mike]

Glock, I'll provide my link after I decide to buy it or not and after you provide the ones I've been harassing you about. If I take my meds too late I can't sleep.

 

[saturno_v]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_P90#Users
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiveseven#Users

That's a lot of users for a round to just die. A Upper for AR 15s has existed for a few years, one company that has been around for a few years is creating one and other one is creating 4 guns, two pistols and two carbines all chambered for this round. 2 guns from the company that made the round is nothing. Any company can create a round and a gun for it. For it to become NATO accepted, used world wide, and different companies starting to build 5.7 chambered firearms is not the same. Even you can admit that.

I have no problem accepting the fact that the 5,7x28 could be a useful round is some particular situation LE personnel may find themselves....for sure this round look a niche product at best...

Look what happened to the 10mm....great round, I love it, but is just hanging there, no real traction....FBI wanted something moe powerful than 9mm, adopted the 10, then the 10 is too powerful, make the .40 and now the 9mm is in some sort of revival among LE agencies...because they do not see the need of the .40 power in urban situations...r
Schizophrenia at its best....

But the way NATO acceptance of the 5,7x28 I believe is suspended indefinitely....individual countries are accepting it....

This is what I found on the FN Forum from one forum member which I suppose works in LE

Captiva,

For those whom enjoy shooting 5.7 mm systems, more power to them.

However, within the LE\Mil world, its been known to be non-performing for our needs and its real world application. While various tests will illustrate the cartridge's ability to perform within the testing medium, there is no real world data supporting awesome ability as a man-slaying cartridge. There is information available, from those directly involved, regarding its performance in a different respect.

Periodically, it will pop up, and now and then a department will evaluate it for use; there are even some departments whom use or authorize their use. They are few and far between, for good reason.

The caliber is likely fun as hell to fire, or so I've heard; however, for the LE\Mil lifestyle, there is little\no room for such hopeful idealism that it will live up to its hype. Hence, we stick with the proven products

http://fnforum.net/forums/5-7x28mm-ammunition/2846-9mm-vs-5-7x28-2.html

If this individual is to be believed, seems that there is not too much enthusiasm about the 5,7x28 among LE personnel and agencies...

 

[Skribs]

Actually I guess it would be Condition 1, since the XDM is mostly/completely cocked (unlike a Glock) and the trigger/grip safeties are off if I am not touching the weapon.

Glockbite, I use a plastic holster. It isn't going to have the tatter issue that a leather holster will. I also don't get holsters with the strap, because I don't want the strap to enter the trigger guard.

Saturno, people still use the 10mm, though. I'd carry it because if I'm going into the woods, I'd rather have 10mm FMJs than anything else.

I don't remember hearing NATO suspended acceptance of the round...