FN 5.7 as home defense gun?

[G|0cKbYtE]

I'd say the real standard these days are the guns with *no* external safety. Talk about intuitive.

But here's the real question. I need sufficient motivation to learn (that means practice...a lot) an entirely new safety configuration. I need a reason to buy an extremely expensive handgun. I need a reason to switch to a round that is difficult to reload and expensive to buy ammo & components. For people like me, there needs to be something that counterbalances those drawbacks. A couple of ounces and a little bit less recoil just don't seem like enough for me. So what else is there?

There have been a lot of guys over the years who have popped themselves thanks to the Glock "safe action" trigger. The Five-seveN also comes with a magazine safety (can be easily disabled) which has saved more than a few lives as well.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

That does get me thinking...you know where the 5.7 would really shine? Full auto!

Very much so! It would put the Glock 18 to shame. Can you imagine a 31 round armor-piercing pistol that is only 1.5 inches taller than stock? Full-auto would be much more controllable since the 5.7 has less recoil than the 9mm.

 

[fallout mike]

I'm still waiting on the secret, private documentation that makes us cringe while you chuckle.

 

[Gryffydd]

There have been a lot of guys over the years who have popped themselves thanks to the Glock "safe action" trigger.

Nope. There have been a lot of guys who have popped themselves thanks to them being idiots and exhibiting unsafe gun handling.

Edit to add: Blaming the equipment is like blaming guns for violence.

 

[fallout mike]

I would also like the names of the people that the magazine safety has saved. Or a link to the story.

 

[Gryffydd]

Very much so! It would put the Glock 18 to shame. Can you imagine a 31 round armor-piercing pistol that is only 1.5 inches taller than stock?

Now see, that I can get behind. Almost like a modern Scorpion. It would actually offer something truly different that would make it actually worth picking over the established standards. Too bad us peasants wouldn't be allowed to own one.

 

[JHenry]

Ive never really liked the glock safety, in all honesty ive seen who some police agencies hire and i would feel much more comfortable if they didnt carry Glocks, maybe thats just me though

 

[Gryffydd]

Ive never really liked the glock safety, in all honesty ive seen who some police agencies hire and i would feel much more comfortable if they didnt carry Glocks, maybe thats just me though

IMHO opinion if they can't be safe with Glocks the only way I'd be comfortable is if they were equipped like Barney Fife (Empty gun, one round in their shirt pocket).

 

[481]

I'm still waiting on the secret, private documentation that makes us cringe while you chuckle.

Or is it the secret, private documentation that makes us chuckle while they cringe?

 

[Skribs]

People aren't saved by safeties. People are saved by not being idiots. Take any gun in the world, add on:
-Magazine safety
-Grip Safety
-Trigger safety
-Thumb safety
-A finger safety half-way down the slide for redundancy
-An 11 pound trigger pull
-13 different internal safeties that deactivate only when the trigger is pulled
-A bio-lock with a 10-digit PIN required to unlock the firing pin

And people will still shoot themselves because "I thought it was locked and both safeties were on." People shoot themselves with 1911s and with Glocks, and all the derivatives and hybrids and second-cousins in between.

Maybe Microsoft should come out with a gun. When your finger goes inside the trigger guard, a paper clip appears and says "I see you are trying to shoot. Would you like to pull the trigger now?" If you say "yes" then the gun goes BANG. If you say "no" or "I don't know", then your finger gets physically forced out of the trigger guard. (And you'd still get people who shoot themselves in the foot testing out the feature).

EDIT: Guys, I know some of his stuff is a bit of an exaggeration, but he's not posting those in this thread, from what I've seen. Please don't goad him anymore than is necessary. If he posts stuff in the thread, by all means ask for a source, but don't stoop down to making fun of him just to prove your point in every thread.

 

[dev_null]

Skribs: It would still crash and have to be rebooted once a week. Although I'm sure I know some people who could bluescreen a pistol.

 

[fallout mike]

He did say the five seven had a magazine safety that has saved more than a few lives. I want to read about it to judge the safety measures as I have been contemplating buying one. I'm beginning to change my mind though due to wading through all the bs trying to get good info.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

I would also like the names of the people that the magazine safety has saved. Or a link to the story.

There are quite a few stories where a mag safety saved the lives of someone in a struggle. Have you ever heard of a guy named Massad Ayoob?

In the early 1970s, trained in the conventional wisdom of the time (which doesn't seem to have changed much), I saw no reason not to pull the disconnector out of a Browning or S&W 9mm for the same reasons being articulated on this thread.

I had to change my mind when, in the mid-1970s, I started hanging with Illinois State Troopers and their armorers and instructors. At the time, they taught troopers to use the issue Model 39's mag release as a "kill button" if it appeared that the gun was about to be ripped out of their hands. They documented multiple "saves" due to this strategy. I later learned that Las Vegas had had similar experiences with their Model 59s, and Salt Lake City had experienced at least one such save with the Model 39.

From then to now, I've found NO cases where someone had to fire their one chambered round with no magazine in any sort of survival situation. I had to go with the reality, and changed my mind accordingly. -Massad Ayoob

 

[fallout mike]

You singled out glock's safety and then defend this safety with a excerpt about a model 59 & a model 39? I assumed you were talking specifically about your favorite gun. That just seems a little odd.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

Nope. There have been a lot of guys who have popped themselves thanks to them being idiots and exhibiting unsafe gun handling.

Edit to add: Blaming the equipment is like blaming guns for violence.

That's not true. While nothing replaces safe gun handling, it is quite a reach to say that one safety on a gun is a bad idea and can be avoided simply by keeping your finger off the trigger. Don't confuse a mantra with reality. A safety can help in lots of situations including but not limited to someone dropping their gun and then trying to catch it in confusion, or a child that somehow manages to get his/her hands on it - people come out of the womb knowing how to pull a trigger, but safeties are a tiny bit more confusing.

Many people are just flat dumb, and even the smartest, most vigilant make a mistake every now and then. A safety is not an excuse for proper trigger discipline, but it can be a small safety net in times when things don't go as planned.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

You singled out glock's safety..

What safety?

 

[Skribs]

Most kids know how to disable safeties, or at least poke around until it goes 'bang'. I can't remember how many movies I watched when I was a kid where they do the gag "you have to take the safety off" and even then I'm thinking "wow, he didn't know that?"

http://us.glock.com/technology/safe-action

Glocks have 3 safeties. I have an XDM, which has virtually the same safety system (their grip safety is defeated so easily I don't even factor it in) and I've never had an AD/ND, despite it having a bullet in the chamber 99% of the time.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

Most kids know how to disable safeties, or at least poke around until it goes 'bang'. I can't remember how many movies I watched when I was a kid where they do the gag "you have to take the safety off" and even then I'm thinking "wow, he didn't know that?"

http://us.glock.com/technology/safe-action

Glocks have 3 safeties. I have an XDM, which has virtually the same safety system (their grip safety is defeated so easily I don't even factor it in) and I've never had an AD/ND, despite it having a bullet in the chamber 99% of the time.

Agree to disagree. I like my gun with a "real" safety. Oh, and save the Glock sales brochure, I've read it.

 

[Skribs]

The "real" safety is the one between your ears. With the amount of guns using either a trigger safety or a heavy DA trigger as the safety (including DA revolvers), I don't think that it's a small number of people who agree with me.

 

[Bozwell]

I'm actually going to weigh in and consider the manual safety on the 5.7 as a disadvantage, not because it's a manual safety (which I think is a great system if you practice with it), but because you don't have the option to go with a different system. When going with the 5.7 cartridge, you really have one mainstream option and that comes with a manual safety - if you prefer a decocker, too bad. Not everyone prefers to carry their weapon condition 1.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

The "real" safety is the one between your ears.

That is the primary safety, correct. But it is not a backup.

With the amount of guns using either a trigger safety or a heavy DA trigger as the safety (including DA revolvers), I don't think that it's a small number of people who agree with me.

There's a huge difference between a Glock trigger and a DA revolver. The first pull on my SA/DA Sig feels like twice the weight of my Glock. Many police depts. adopted the Sigs because of the SA/DA system. I personally think the SA/DA automatic is the best of both worlds.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

I'm actually going to weigh in and consider the manual safety on the 5.7 as a disadvantage, not because it's a manual safety (which I think is a great system if you practice with it), but because you don't have the option to go with a different system. When going with the 5.7 cartridge, you really have one mainstream option and that comes with a manual safety - if you prefer a decocker, too bad. Not everyone prefers to carry their weapon condition 1.

I agree, I wish they had a SA/DA Five-seveN. Remember, the early Five-seveN's were DAO. You can still get one of those for around 2 grand used I think.

 

[fallout mike]

I'm actually looking at a 1st gen model for just under $1000. Why do you continually over exaggerate all your claims?

 

[Owen Sparks]

Cool video! I hope that I never need to do that but I will learn how.

 

[G|0cKbYtE]

I'm actually looking at a 1st gen model for just under $1000. Why do you continually over exaggerate all your claims?

Please provide a link to the 1st generation DAO for just under $1,000. The last time I saw a Tactical DAO for sale in excellent condition was in a 5.7 forum and he wanted around 2 grand.

And what do you mean by continually over exaggerate my claims? Have you taken your meds yet tonight?