FN Five seveN

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Okay. This is a line-officer. (Major, I believe). He had access to firearms. If not from a gun store, he had access to military weaponry. And (I'm just gonna say it). He's a Muslim, who had issues with US foreign policy and treatment of Muslims, and was pissed about being deployed into a place he felt he might have to kill co-religionists.

Basically, no way to stop this, and no way to see it happening. There are Muslims in the US military. Many don't like US foreign policy, but they don't go on shooting rampages. Many non-Muslims in the US military don't agree with our foreign policy. They also don't go on shooting rampages.

It doesn't matter that this guy used an FN Five-seveN.

It doesn't matter what type of 5.7 bullets he used.

What matters is that the only way to stop this thing sooner would have been for people @ Hood to be able to walk the base armed. He was stopped by a person with a gun. Unfortunately, she had to drive there, and by that time, he'd killed 12 and wounded 31.
 
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Really messed up situation that. Only way to stop this crap is to do something about some guy walking the other side of the rail, but if someone looks and acts so normal, there is no way to tell.
 
Not exactly. He's a MEDICAL officer. He carries a pistol, if that, and he qualifies with it occasionally. (I'd be surprised if it's once a year.) ALL military weapons are under redundant security measures. There are those who have unaccompanied access to them, but it wouldn't have been him. It would have been his unit armorer, (an NCO,) and MAYBE his CO and an assistant. (The CO doesn't always want to share the responsibility, often they will delegate it entirely to the armorer.) This guy was no different than a guy on the street as far as access to military weapons goes.

I have native speaker muslims in my unit. I trusted them yesterday, I'll trust them tomorrow.

There are regulations on every post restricting the possession of firearms. It always says: "By order of the post commander", but the truth is, it's under directive from the DOD, no commander is under latitude to allow carry on-post. Ft. Hood is as secure as it gets. I've had my car searched at post gates, but I've never been patted down. This will happen anywhere it wants to. The only thing that stops a determined shooter is ANOTHER determined shooter. In this case, it was a cop. The shooter did a LOT of damage before she got to him.

A lot of GOOD things happened too. Medics attending a ceremony in the other room ran TOWARDS the sound of gunfire. A soldier in his truck outside, ran BACK IN during the shooting and transported four wounded to the ER. They deserve very high decorations.

One kid from Ogden was wounded, another from West Salt Lake was killed. I plan on attending his funeral.
 
The traitor is a Medical Services officer who has spent his entire career in a hospital setting in the US. It is entirely possible that he hasn't even fired an issue weapon in YEARS...possibly not since ROTC Summer Camp.

It is also possible that he is not even assigned a weapon. Rank and duty position do not automatically equate to proficiency with or even acess to a military weapon.

Some of the most dangerous and least competent folks I've ever seen on a range are non-combat arms Captains and Majors who have only rarely participated in live fire weapons training.

Not an indictment...just an observation that many supervisory and technical folks in the military do have "Operate Bullet Launcher" included in their job description.

It will turn out that some gun-shop commando counter help sold him the FN 5.7 after extolling its virtues to a novice.
 
Anyone notice a trend with the media about the weapons? These guys are so clueless that its bordering on the comical.
Ed Lavendera CNN: This ah, Pistol, the FN-5.7 is apparently a drug catel favorite.
Female reporter: Hassan used an automatic pistol that loads itself and fires continously, thats how he was able to shoot so many. He had two guns not sure what type eh gun the other one was.
CNN: We are trying to findout where the weapons came from, they are going to have to try and figure out how he was able to obtain the weapons and how he was able to get them to the scene. ...

Huh? Are these people for real? The guy is in Texas, he can legally buy them, he can just carry them to the base in his car, not like they thoroughly search everyone who walks into base. He is supposed to register the weapons on base, but if he doesn't no way anyone would know until he did something. Why so much seemingly dumb reporting?

Actually The Five-Seven pistol and 5.7x28mm cartridge were specifically targeted for a U.S. federal ban in 2005, which failed. This is not a common gun you see around with people, though there are rumors about SWAT teams using the LE and Military version. I suspect there will be knee jerk reaction to do something now. You ban this, psychos like him just use the next weapon. You can ban all weapons and they'd use a knife. Besides banning weapons stops nothing. The criminals are not going to give up what they have, you just increase the pool of possible victims and make it easier for the criminal to harm the unarmed civilians.
 
An Army spokesman was saying early on the guy didn't use any military-issued weapons, that they were all secured and accounted for. He said that the pistols were personal property and that it is common for soldiers on the base to have personal firearms for hunting and such (lots of good hunting around Ft. Hood).

The 5.7 X 28 round is designed to penetrate battlefield ballistic armor with the correct bullet when fired from the P90. However, the SS190 ammunition with the aluminum core bullet is not sold to individuals, not even individual police officers; it must be purchased from a special warehouse with an approved military or law enforcement agency purchase order (something the Brady Bunch conveniently overlooks). The only ammo types offered without restrictions are the SS197SR sporting round and the SS195LF lead-free target round. This has been the situation since the caliber was introduced.

Besides, as we all know, federal law prohibits the sale or possession of armor-piercing handgun ammunition.

Use of the Five-seveN would explain how he was able to fire so many shots with two pistols: in the civilian version, each one comes with three 20-round magazines. With two, he could easily have been carrying 120 rounds of ammo.

The anti-gun gang is going to have trouble making much hay out of this one. The guy is a commissioned military officer who committed this act on a military base. He is a medical doctor and a psychiatrist and the AMA isn't going to be real thrilled to have much publicity about the fact that even shrinks can go around the bend. And the Brady Bunch and the Violence Policy Center are going to look silly trying to promote gun control on a military base. Bet they don't even know the firearms regulations on a military base.

Plus, President Obama s quite sensitive to the military; he's got to get them on his side. He isn't going to be too thrilled with anyone putting pressure on him to make the Army look bad.

On the other hand, I have already seen the dittoheads blaming this on Obama and the liberals through some kind of connection that must require a tinfoil hat or strong belief in the Tooth Fairy. They may be the ones who screw this up for everyone. The shooter was a Muslim who didn't want to be deployed to the Middle East. He had already been victimized by a GI who vandalized his car just because he was Muslim. The guy was arrested and is facing trial on the charges. Basically, it just sounds like Major Hasan tripped a mental breaker some time ago and finally blew the main yesterday; from what I've seen, there's plenty of data to back that up.
 
ABC News is saying Hasan used a Five-seveN "tactical pistol" and a Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver, which is apparently not a tactical pistol. Maybe the S&W is more of a "strategic" weapon? ABC News says some law enforcement officials say the gun packs "so much firepower that they call it 'The cop killer.'" Hmmm... I have a Beretta PX4 Storm and it will accept a 20-round magazine: I guess I have a tactical pistol, too! And the Glock 17 will take a 33-round magazine. Can't even imagine what ABC would think of that.

If anyone knows of a single prior instance of a cop being killed (wounded, threatened, somewhat annoyed) by anyone using a Five-seveN, I'd like to know about it. I'll bet the "law enforcement agencies" ABC consulted were limited to Brady Bunch baloney in their knowledge of the Five-seveN or the 5.7x28 cartridge.
 
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At least it was can be demonized as a unique type of pistol by the media. That is how it will be spun, as it is going to bite us pro gun folks anyhow. We all know it really didn't matter what kind of gun it was. Damage control is more the issue. And now with a second event in Orlando there is more of a need to deflect rather than absorb. We were discussing this very weapon in here yesterday, right before the incident, in the post about body armor and the new breed of armor wearing bad guys. It's strange that a little while later this very gun gets used.
 
I love the term "cop-killer bullets". In fact, I bet that is just how FN markets the guns and bullets in their catalogs in the US. "Cop Killer Bullets! Now, 1/2 Price". Because we all know that such an ad wouldn't generate any press and nobody would bat an eyelash if someone started selling ammo marketed as "cop killer bullets".
 
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Has anyone bothered to send an email to CNN & FOX correcting them of there mistakes? I'm about to fire off a few (emails) here soon.
 
Public Law 99-408, signed into effect in August 1986, amended the Federal criminal code to define "armor-piercing ammunition as projectiles constructed from specified material which may be used in handguns. Excludes from the definition: (1) shotgun shot required by Federal or State regulations for hunting; (2) frangible projectiles for target shooting; or (3) projectiles that the Secretary of the Treasury determines are primarily intended for sporting purposes or industrial use.

Makes it unlawful for any person to manufacture or import armor-piercing ammunition. Allows for: (1) the manufacture or importation of armor-piercing ammunition for the use of the United States or any State or local government; (2) the manufacture for the sole purpose of exportation; and (3) the manufacture or importation for testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary. Allows for the sale and delivery of armor-piercing ammunition for these purposes.

Establishes a licensing fee of $1,000 per year for manufacturers and importers of armor-piercing ammunition.

Authorizes the Secretary to revoke any license issued to a dealer if such dealer willfully transfers armor-piercing ammunition.

Requires licensed importers and manufacturers to specially mark all armor-piercing projectiles and packages.

Imposes an additional mandatory sentence of not less than five years for any person who uses or carries a firearm and is in possession of armor-piercing ammunition during the commission of a crime of violence. Provides that such sentence shall not be suspended or probation or parole be granted.

I should have been more specific about the circumstances. My bad.

Yes, I sent a note to ABC with the facts. Not that I expect it to do any good.
 
For the love of pete....

Doesn't anybody have a brain these days...??



gawd.

:cool:
 
After reading this entire thread I would like to think I'm shocked at how moronic the media is. I really wish I had a job where I could just make up facts and stats all day long. Do they realize how uneducated this makes them look? I can't believe people will believe anything that the media says. Actually, yes I can that's how Obama got elected.
 
While watching Wolfman Blitzer on CNN, he reported the FN gun as a "cop-killer" gun.....in reference to, what he says, is the street name for it. I rolled my eyes at that one....
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And that kind of thing is why I avoid CNN.

We can talk about how the gun is no more or if less deadly than any other handgun, or how the AP ammo isn't available to civilians, but they don't care. They aren't going to make a law based on the facts. Do you guys remember the AWB? A ban on the 5.7 would be just as stupid, so don't be suprised.
 
meef said:
For the love of pete....

Doesn't anybody have a brain these days...??
Click to expand...



Of course not! It's all about ratings and sensationalism. That's how they get paid.




Kris
 
cop-killer bullets
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I don't know if any officer has been killed by a 5.7 bullet or not, but I would bet that .357, 9mm, 40 S&W and .380's probably severly outway any number of officers killed (if any) by 5.7. I would also stand to bet that .22's have had more impact on law enforcement casualties than 5.7's.
 
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While watching Wolfman Blitzer on CNN, he reported the FN gun as a "cop-killer" gun.....in reference to, what he says, is the street name for it. I rolled my eyes at that one....

Forgot which one, but another network reported that "the round is so devastating that police have named it the Cop Killer Bullet"
 
BushyGuy said:
the 9mm has the highest kill record of all time, higher then the .45 or the FN57, look up all the history of mass shootings in the US . the 9mm lives up to its reputation while most people say the .45 is better while the 9mm has the highest kill records.
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I'm not sure I really understand what you're getting at here, man. I thought the stopping power of the .45 ACP round was well proven in World War II. I figure most shooters know there's a big difference between the stopping power of it and the 9mm round. How are you interpreting your statistics? I'm just trying to figure out what sort of logic you're using here, I'm not attacking your post or anything.
 
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