Hopefully this is not a repost. However, as of lately I've heard alot about this handgun. My first thought was the pistol was created for armor penetration, the armor piercing rounds are obviously illegal so I figured the gun would be useless for self defense. Then I began thinking that the 5.56 although smaller causes alot more damage to a target than the older 7.62... so, does this mean that the 5.7 could possibly cause more damage to a soft target than a 9mm?
FNH Five-Seven Opinions?
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Princi
Member
I shot one at the FN Herstal event here in Fort Worth. I was really impressed with the gun. I was so impressed - that I bought one.
This is a small bullet .224", but does have high velocity. It is the same round that FN uses in the PS90. Personally, I'm a believer in the largest round possible for convenient carry. I didn't buy the Five-seveN for defense. I regularly carry a 357 Magum for defense. Although with tight pants I've been known to slip in a NAA 22 Mag, which is better (only slightly) than nothing.
This is a small bullet .224", but does have high velocity. It is the same round that FN uses in the PS90. Personally, I'm a believer in the largest round possible for convenient carry. I didn't buy the Five-seveN for defense. I regularly carry a 357 Magum for defense. Although with tight pants I've been known to slip in a NAA 22 Mag, which is better (only slightly) than nothing.
Geronimo45
Member
The FMJ seems to:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/5.7x28mm.html
Seems to be about 130 FPS difference between the handgun and the rifle in that caliber. Not bad.
20 rnds in the gun, and 30 in another mag on the belt... what's not to like?
very, very pleasant to shoot. almost no muzzle-flip, but lots of noise.
very light in a holster compared to other full-sized pistols, and some compacts
single action. average trigger. not as bad as a glock, but not exactly a 1911 either.
i had an IOM and a USG (traded one for the other then sold it). i liked them, but they just didn't make the cut when i was downsizing to only stuff I could shoot religiously
very, very pleasant to shoot. almost no muzzle-flip, but lots of noise.
very light in a holster compared to other full-sized pistols, and some compacts
single action. average trigger. not as bad as a glock, but not exactly a 1911 either.
i had an IOM and a USG (traded one for the other then sold it). i liked them, but they just didn't make the cut when i was downsizing to only stuff I could shoot religiously
hankdatank1362
Member
Are you implying that the 5.56 is a better manstopper than the 7.62x51?
Or, for that matter, does anything better than the 7.62x51?
It's a lighter weight and lighter recoiling round and it's easier to carry more of. And it's more inexpensive. Those are the only redeeming features the 5.56 has going for it when pitted against the 7.62x51.
hankdatank1362
Member
Nevermind, don't mean to birdwalk.
Taliv, which did you like more the USG or the IOM?
Geronimo45 great link, thanks man. Seems like the illegal rounds are the ones with the most tumble. Looks like the civilian lead rounds do no more than what a 9mm does, correct me if I'm wrong.
Geronimo45 great link, thanks man. Seems like the illegal rounds are the ones with the most tumble. Looks like the civilian lead rounds do no more than what a 9mm does, correct me if I'm wrong.
Ohen Cepel
Member
It's a great idea. However, in my area the ammo is very hard to find and I fear it will be another one that is too expensive to shoot in 10 years.
I was referring to the 7.62x39...
Dozens of tests show that unless the target is armored the 5.56 has every advantage in close to medium range combat. From every test I've ever read and watched the 7.62 tends to go in one end and out the other with no more than the jacket being stripped off. Where as the 5.56 tumbled or even shattered. With that said I'm still much more interested in the handgun.
Dozens of tests show that unless the target is armored the 5.56 has every advantage in close to medium range combat. From every test I've ever read and watched the 7.62 tends to go in one end and out the other with no more than the jacket being stripped off. Where as the 5.56 tumbled or even shattered. With that said I'm still much more interested in the handgun.
IOM is collector's item. has numerous advantages (primarily, is less politically correct). Advantage of USG is it's nearly ambidextrous. I am a lefty.
the 5.7x28 bears little resemblance to the 223 rem. comparisons between 223rem and 308win are worse than irrelevant here. concentrate.
(ONLY interesting comparison between 5.7 and 223 is that cost of 223 is skyrocketing, while cost of 5.7 is falling. it is readily available on the internet for around $650/2000 rnds so as hard to believe as this may seem, the PS90 is becoming an economical plinker)
the 5.7x28 bears little resemblance to the 223 rem. comparisons between 223rem and 308win are worse than irrelevant here. concentrate.
(ONLY interesting comparison between 5.7 and 223 is that cost of 223 is skyrocketing, while cost of 5.7 is falling. it is readily available on the internet for around $650/2000 rnds so as hard to believe as this may seem, the PS90 is becoming an economical plinker)
Geronimo45
Member
The FMJ mentioned in that link is civvie-legal stuff. SS195 (FMJ), 196, 197 are perfectly legal. SS192 was, but I think it's been discontinued. The SS190 is the AP round.
5.7x28 is an answer without a question.
For civilians it is neutered with down-loaded rounds using hornady varmint bullets, making it essentially a .22WMR. For military it is inferior to the already-in-service 5.56x45, even on armor (5.56 steel core). The ONLY advantage to the system is that the rifle and pistol can use the same cartridge, but in terms of combat efficacy, on paper the 5.7 is unimpressive and in the real world it's largely unproven.
You'd be better choosing a more proven pistol caliber if you intend the weapon for "social" use.
For civilians it is neutered with down-loaded rounds using hornady varmint bullets, making it essentially a .22WMR. For military it is inferior to the already-in-service 5.56x45, even on armor (5.56 steel core). The ONLY advantage to the system is that the rifle and pistol can use the same cartridge, but in terms of combat efficacy, on paper the 5.7 is unimpressive and in the real world it's largely unproven.
You'd be better choosing a more proven pistol caliber if you intend the weapon for "social" use.
alucard0822
Member
When a FMJ bullet strikes the heavier base tries to overtake the lighter nose causing yaw, this is the case in nearly all FMJ bullets 9mm, 5.56, 7.62 and so on. FMJ 5.56 is designed to fragment, and this causes the wounds associated with it, but fragmentation only occurs reliably above 2700fps. The 5.7 doesn't even come close, it really is nothing more than a glorified 22, with velocities close to 22mag. It looks like a neat target load, especially at longer ranges, but is currently expensive for what it is, and a decent 9mm should far outperform it aggainst 2 legged threats at a lower cost. For a similarly flat shooting high velocity hangun round, but more effective with more weight behind it, less expensive ammo, and less expensive pistols chambered for it, I would rather go with 7.62 tokarev. And the five seven itself looks like a cross between a buck rodgers ray gun(not in a good way), and someone who thought "hey glocks are nice pistols, but I think they could use some more plastic parts"
Both types of ammo tested had very inadequate penetration. 5.7mm civilian ammo has had very little (actually, none) terminal ballistics research into it, and is unlikely to be well developed at any forseeable point in the future.
Established service auto calibers generally have the most modern, consistent, and highest quality loads available, especially .40 S&W and 9mm Para, as these calibers are what the vast majority of police departments issue, thus those are the calibers that the ammunition manufacturers develop the most.
I like the heavier weight Remington Golden Sabers in .40 and 9mm. Probably the best in .45 is Winchester Ranger Talons, but those are restricted to law enforcement only. You can still find them, but that means your money goes to Winchester, a company whose policies basically say that if you don't have a badge, you should not have effective ammunition to defend your life. Their civilian lines of ammunition are not tested at all. Just make a piece of lead with a hole in the tip, stuff it in a case, and sell it. At no point are their civilian lines ever tested for performance.
Established service auto calibers generally have the most modern, consistent, and highest quality loads available, especially .40 S&W and 9mm Para, as these calibers are what the vast majority of police departments issue, thus those are the calibers that the ammunition manufacturers develop the most.
I like the heavier weight Remington Golden Sabers in .40 and 9mm. Probably the best in .45 is Winchester Ranger Talons, but those are restricted to law enforcement only. You can still find them, but that means your money goes to Winchester, a company whose policies basically say that if you don't have a badge, you should not have effective ammunition to defend your life. Their civilian lines of ammunition are not tested at all. Just make a piece of lead with a hole in the tip, stuff it in a case, and sell it. At no point are their civilian lines ever tested for performance.
let's face it... it's been over a hundred years and people are still arguing about relative effectiveness of .45acp vs 9mm. and it's not for lack of corpses to study.
it just wouldn't be the internet if there weren't some people claiming 5.7x28's a death ray and others claiming it'll bounce off a slice of soggy white bread.
if you had a million shootings to study, you'd just find some folks got knicked in the finger and fell over dead, and others were shot 10 times in the left eyeball and kept coming.
the list of agencies using the 5.7 is reasonably impressive. i see no compelling reason to accept or reject 5.7 based on it being more or less established than other cartridges.
it just wouldn't be the internet if there weren't some people claiming 5.7x28's a death ray and others claiming it'll bounce off a slice of soggy white bread.
if you had a million shootings to study, you'd just find some folks got knicked in the finger and fell over dead, and others were shot 10 times in the left eyeball and kept coming.
the list of agencies using the 5.7 is reasonably impressive. i see no compelling reason to accept or reject 5.7 based on it being more or less established than other cartridges.
Thanks for the posts everyone, the answers are what I figured they'd be. I was originally a nay sayer to the watered down civilian round. I guess my first instinct was right. Now it's between the 9mm, 40, and 45 decisions decisions.
Taliv, is there any actual websites that list what agencies use what? That would be cool but I doubt it exists =/
Taliv, is there any actual websites that list what agencies use what? That would be cool but I doubt it exists =/
a list is maintained here: http://fivesevenforum.net/showthread.php?t=7356
you may have to register, but it's worth the price.
you may have to register, but it's worth the price.
I think there are some interesting posts on this subject on this thread:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=227797
I have a Five Seven and a PS90, and am satisfied with the round.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=24&t=227797
I have a Five Seven and a PS90, and am satisfied with the round.
possum
Member
my buddy bought one before we deployed and i got to shoot it quite a bit. i am very pleased with it. i like the trigger it is very nice. i like the safety placement, i like the ambi mag release, well it is switchable form side to side. there is no recoil to speak of, and the 3 20rd mags he got was an awesome plus. that is alot of firepower just 20rds is though.
they are a little pricy and i don't think that i would buy one, i wouldn't carry it it is a little big and ammo is outrageous. i didn't shoot it as good as i would like so i will have to give it another 50rds or so, but he shot it really well with great accuarcy.
they are a little pricy and i don't think that i would buy one, i wouldn't carry it it is a little big and ammo is outrageous. i didn't shoot it as good as i would like so i will have to give it another 50rds or so, but he shot it really well with great accuarcy.
zeroskillz
Member
FWIW, I sell them NIB for $799..
I've been hoping someone will return one so I can try it out
-Ted
I've been hoping someone will return one so I can try it out
-Ted
alucard0822
Member
Establishment and popularity only partially show the effectiveness, or value of a cartridge, look at 10mm and 41mag, both are far less popular than the 40S&W and 44mag, but in many cases they offer an edge over the more established cartridges, but at least characteristics inherent to the intended use are there, I have not seen data on the 500s&w as a defensive cartridge, but firing a couple, and looking at the data, I can deduce it would be fairly effective stopping an attacker with a COM hit, but the size of the weapon, and recoil would be the factors that limit it in that use. I have fired a five seven just to see what it was like, and could say it was an accurate, light recoiling weapon, but I would be more inclined to use it aggainst groundhogs at 100yds than an attacker at close range where more than 5 rounds are unlikely to be used, until sufficient data can prove otherwise, this is my opinion.
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