For the .270 Win/150 gr. and 6.5x55 Swede/140 gr. - Talk Me Out of Using IMR 4831

[Garandimal]

These are Field Rifles, and field loads.

22" w/ a 2.5-8X for the .270 Win and 24" w/ Aperture sights for the 6.5x55.

Bullet selection is the Speer Grand Slam, in 150 and 140 gr respectively. At $0.22/pop, they make a very good 300 yard field load with the economy of a range round.

And, because the ranges will be medium-long, 2800 fps is all that is required, which also helps keep the recoil down.

The bullets are very precise, and IMR 4831 has given me very tight and consistent loads in the 2800 fps velocity range over the years. And because the charge wts are a little lower than the very slow powders, that also lowers recoil.

It's just a little old.

Tired?

Antiquated?

Or... Classic.

Not averse to another 100-150 fps, but it's also not necessary.

Need ~ 8-lbs, and want to use the same powder and CCI #200 primers for both loads.




GR

 

[troy fairweather]

the only thing maybe use h-4831sc not as temp sensitive better for hunting with hot/cold swings. other wise 4831 is great powder.

 

[Laphroaig]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

IMR 4831 is my pet load for 6.5 x 55 w/ 140's. I don't load .270 but have heard its a good choice there too.

I think that the H-version is a completely different beast.

 

[Chuck R.]

the only thing maybe use h-4831sc not as temp sensitive better for hunting with hot/cold swings. other wise 4831 is great powder.

I've swapped out IMR 4831 & 4350 to their "H" counterparts for that very reason.

 

[troy fairweather]

I've swapped out IMR 4831 & 4350 to their "H" counterparts for that very reason.

ya i am thinking to switch,i really like the imr's 4350 and 4831. but the last 3 years of deer season it has gone from very cold, sub 20 degrees to over 70 in one or two days.

 

[LRDGCO]

No.

 

[Pat Riot]

Don’t do it. There. Simple. Next?

 

[Garandimal]

I've swapped out IMR 4831 & 4350 to their "H" counterparts for that very reason.

How did your charge weights/ velocities/ groups differ?

Probably lookin' at a 60°F max Annual range - which would be 66 fps w/ the IMR 4831.

...Which would in all likelihood be more like (+/-) 33 fps, given Spring load development and Fall pre-Season sight-in.

And the swing during hunting Season would probably be half that.


Never noticed it in the past.




GR

 

[LoonWulf]

I run a compressed load of retumbo in my 6.5-284, but I think it's got enough extra capacity that the x55 would do better with a slightly faster powders.
H1k MIGHT work, but I think 4831-7828s (+what ever the the endurons in that range are) sweet spot for heavy bullets in either case.

The RL series could probably net you some gains, and some of the newer ones are supposed to be quite stabil.

 

[cdb1]

I use IMR 4831 for my 6.5x55 shooting Berger 130 grain VLD’s. I have some Norma MRP to try and it supposedly gives higher velocity. I’ve had it for five years and don’t know if I’ll ever get around to trying it.

 

[Chuck R.]

How did your charge weights/ velocities/ groups differ?

Probably lookin' at a 60°F max Annual range - which would be 66 fps w/ the IMR 4831.

...Which would in all likelihood be more like (+/-) 33 fps, given Spring load development and Fall pre-Season sight-in.
And the swing during hunting Season would probably be half that.
Never noticed it in the past.

GR

I didn't just substitute, complete load work up....really no shortcuts when switching.

Once I started playing with the OCW method and chasing nodes I started questioning the effect of those 70+ FPS swings due to temps. With IMR4831 I had a great "cool weather" load in my .270, but practice in the summer resulted in flattened primers and a sticking bolt. Also a 60+ increase in MV. Like Troy said, here in KS we get some wild swings at times during the deer season, literally going fro pack boots to "T" shirts in a couple days.

Another contributing factor was a combination of buying a LabRadar and Strelok Pro. So now I'm chronographing more, and thanks to the program seeing the difference.

 

[243winxb]

No decoppering agent in IMR4831 OR these.

 

[Newtosavage]

I couldn't get 2800 out of my Tikka .270 with 150's over H4831. Others have, but I couldn't. Pressure signs showed up around 2700.

 

[Garandimal]

I didn't just substitute, complete load work up....really no shortcuts when switching.

Once I started playing with the OCW method and chasing nodes I started questioning the effect of those 70+ FPS swings due to temps. With IMR4831 I had a great "cool weather" load in my .270, but practice in the summer resulted in flattened primers and a sticking bolt. Also a 60+ increase in MV. Like Troy said, here in KS we get some wild swings at times during the deer season, literally going fro pack boots to "T" shirts in a couple days.

Another contributing factor was a combination of buying a LabRadar and Strelok Pro. So now I'm chronographing more, and thanks to the program seeing the difference.

Hunt the woods and swamps of the Great State of Louisiana and Mississippi, and then some out West, which is a little warmer.

But 30°F is cold and 60°F is warm, not counting Summer shooting, which can get up to 90°F.

So 60°F, (+/-)30°F, is a good bet.

No decoppering agent in IMR4831 OR these.

This is new to me.

Looked at the IMR Enduron 4955 - but didn't think it would give me the performance of the IMR 4831.

Never really worried about copper in field rifles. Never did anything special to remove it.

Just clean the bore w/ grease and shoot it. Good loads give me sub MOA groups.




GR

 

[Garandimal]

I run a compressed load of retumbo in my 6.5-284, but I think it's got enough extra capacity that the x55 would do better with a slightly faster powders.
H1k MIGHT work, but I think 4831-7828s (+what ever the the endurons in that range are) sweet spot for heavy bullets in either case.

The RL series could probably net you some gains, and some of the newer ones are supposed to be quite stabil.

I use IMR 4831 for my 6.5x55 shooting Berger 130 grain VLD’s. I have some Norma MRP to try and it supposedly gives higher velocity. I’ve had it for five years and don’t know if I’ll ever get around to trying it.

The 6.5x55, being a new cartridge for me, have read that IMR 4831 is a very good powder for the heavier loads.

Would like 2800 fps (24"/140 gr.) and have found load data for this powder that should produce that.

The RL-19/22 powders have less stability than IMR 4831.

The RL-26 is supposed to be magic, but can't find any of it. (guess disappearing is one of its tricks)






GR

 

[Garandimal]

I couldn't get 2800 out of my Tikka .270 with 150's over H4831. Others have, but I couldn't. Pressure signs showed up around 2700.

Heard it is a "sweet spot" powder for the 130 gr. loads.




GR

 

[someguy2800]

When tested them in 3 different 270’s, IMR 4350 netted the same velocity with much less recoil and blast than H4831 or RL19 and was just as accurate. I was actually getting pressure signs at just over 2800 with H4831 and RL19 and no pressure signs with IMR4350 at 2820 FPS from a 22” barrel. IMR and H 4831 are different so your results might not match what I saw, but 4350 is now my go too in that caliber and several others.

 

[lightman]

In my opinion, 4831 is everything that you said. Old, antiquated, classic, and it just plain works! Several of the rifles that I load 4831 in also shoot well with 4350, 4831SC and RL-22. I don't load either of the cartridges in the original post so a look at a loading book will confirm if those other powders will work for you.

 

[mushu]

imr is a classic and i use a lot of it in my 6.5 swede and 30/06 i wouldn't change

 

[G.E. Lee]

My experience with IMR 4350 closely matches Someguy2800's results, except I used a 280 Rem with a 22 inch barrel. I settled on 52.5 grains. Beyond that signs of high pressure worried me. Accuracy was the same as with IMR 4831, recoil indistinguishable, same with blast, but there was one advantage to the IMR4350--It fouled my bore a lot less.

Did anyone else find IMR 4350 to be cleaner?

 

[Garandimal]

My experience with IMR 4350 closely matches Someguy2800's results, except I used a 280 Rem with a 22 inch barrel. I settled on 52.5 grains. Beyond that signs of high pressure worried me. Accuracy was the same as with IMR 4831, recoil indistinguishable, same with blast, but there was one advantage to the IMR4350--It fouled my bore a lot less.

Did anyone else find IMR 4350 to be cleaner?

Interesting.

Usually only shoot a box or two per trip, and clean w/ grease afterward. During the Season I will leave it be, unless it gets wet, in which case it gets cleaned as well.

When tested them in 3 different 270’s, IMR 4350 netted the same velocity with much less recoil and blast than H4831 or RL19 and was just as accurate. I was actually getting pressure signs at just over 2800 with H4831 and RL19 and no pressure signs with IMR4350 at 2820 FPS from a 22” barrel. IMR and H 4831 are different so your results might not match what I saw, but 4350 is now my go too in that caliber and several others.

Care to share your IMR 4350/ 2820 fps/ 22" charge wt?

If those are 150 gr., that would be ideal.


Was checkin' prices for IMR 4955, and came across a review claiming a fps/°F ratio of 1.7.

Not good.

Startin' to think I'm searchin' for a solution... to a problem that doesn't exist.




GR

 

[Boattale]

My pet .270 load was 54.9 gr. IMR 4350 WLR primers, Winchester Brass, 130 gr Sierra Game King.

 

[someguy2800]

Care to share your IMR 4350/ 2820 fps/ 22" charge wt?

If those are 150 gr., that would be ideal.


Was checkin' prices for IMR 4955, and came across a review claiming a fps/°F ratio of 1.7.

Not good.

Startin' to think I'm searchin' for a solution... to a problem that doesn't exist.




GR

51.5 grains with a Winchester LR primer, federal brass. I was wrong on the velocity. My book says it was actually 2790 FPS average. Pressure was still mild so you could probably keep going if you felt there was a reason. It was not sensitive to charge weight.

This was a 5 shot group I shot while working it up. If not for the one shot out of the group it would have been the best group I had ever shot. It was my brother in laws ruger 77 that I epoxy bedded for him.

 

[Garandimal]

51.5 grains with a Winchester LR primer, federal brass. I was wrong on the velocity. My book says it was actually 2790 FPS average. Pressure was still mild so you could probably keep going if you felt there was a reason. It was not sensitive to charge weight.

This was a 5 shot group I shot while working it up. If not for the one shot out of the group it would have been the best group I had ever shot. It was my brother in laws ruger 77 that I epoxy bedded for him.

For the .270 the IMR 4350 will almost do what the IMR 4831 will do - w/ 1.5 grains less powder.

The 6.5x55 seems to prefer the IMR 4831.

If the reloading pair was .270/.30-06 - the IMR 4350 would have it in a walk.

Will still look into it further.




GR

 

[someguy2800]

For the .270 the IMR 4350 will almost do what the IMR 4831 will do - w/ 1.5 grains less powder.

The 6.5x55 seems to prefer the IMR 4831.

If the reloading pair was .270/.30-06 - the IMR 4350 would have it in a walk.

Will still look into it further.




GR

In my case it did what H4831sc or RL19 did with like 5 grains less powder. But like I said, H and IMR are not the same so your results may vary.