There's nothing shameful about retreat, nor in basing decisions on what's important to you (guns aren't and shouldn't be the most important thing in most peoples' lives), nor is admitting when you've lost the battle and need to find another path to victory.
I agree. But there's shame, as you say, in quitting early. This isn't a war in the literal sense. There always time to retreat... later... when/if SCOTUS lets some state ban everything. But just the opposite happened. There are cracks now... why run and give up now?
There is no reason to retreat unless you weren't seriously in the fight to begin with.
However, there is just as much shame found in futile stubbornness, as there is in refusal to "stand and fight." There's no pride to be found in persecution, no redemption in slavery
.
We aren't talking "slavery" and "persecution". No one is in literal shackles and getting whippings for not picking cotton fast enough. Give me a break.
We're talking about standing up, getting involved, and making things right.. our God given rights... instead of running away like a bunch of pansies.
It was 1920 when women got the right to vote on the federal level. However, some states allowed it before then. Wy allowed it 1869 approx. 50 yrs before the 19th was passed.
If all of the women gave up and moved to those states that already allowed women to vote, the 19th Amendment would never have been passed.
But they chose to stand up instead of bow down.... to fight for what right and not run to because 'its easier'.
Those are heros who made our country. They didn't run and retreat because its was easier. They fought for generations to come... and they didn't do it running away.
The instant --and I mean the instant the armor cracks in these places we have to pounce viciously. Chicago was until very recently a lost cause not worth prioritizing resources to, but through the effort of coordinated forces outside that city, a favorable court ruling offered an opening.
1st, you totally contradict yourself. If Chicago "wasn't worth prioritizing", why did those outside forces put all of those resources to Chicago?
2nd, What... there wasn't any forces INSIDE the city? That's very presumptuous of you and disrespectful to those that inside the city that gave effort too.
The fact is, there were inside forces that caused the cracks and through the help of outside forces, they made substantial headway.
In simple terms, people that didn't run and stood up for themselves caused the cracks and the out side forces that didn't abandon them and tell them to run as is said here so often,,,, instead they helped their brother and sisters in their fight.
THATS commendable unlike what is said and promoted here by so many.
CO cracked from the inside... through grass roots efforts inside CO. People outside CO that didn't abandon them and give help came to support them.
By bringing tremendous lobbying effort to bear during the process that resulted in the new concealed carry laws, gun rights of Illinoi are demonstrably less infringed upon than before (long way to go, though).
Yep... those that are truly in the fight didn't abandon their bothers and sisters in the fight. Unlike what is said and promoted here so often.
If the effort on this front had been solely dependent upon the few people within the Chicago area to hold firm, the new carry provisions would have been utterly meaningless (as opposed to insufficient)
Maybe. Maybe not. A good lawyer with-in the city could have gotten to SCOTUS just as an outside lawyer could.
But the fact is it still took a victim in that city to stand up for whats right and not run away.
Battle lines change, and wise generals adapt to those conditions.
Again, we're not in a literal war here. But since so many like to throw that around, tell me which generals ever decided to give-up to the enemy all around them (west coast/east coast) and retreat to the middle and be surrounded?
So it may sound tacticool to try to relate it to a real war, however, it fails miserably. Ive asked that question several times in different threads and all I hear are crickets.
Conducting surveys and hanging posters for the NRA in San Francisco is wasted effort; but that effort can be magically transported to places where it
can make a difference through the wonder of cash
. The 2nd Amendment needs that internet-money
Personally, I don't think so. The cracks have to come with-in. Otherwise you're just pruning a tree from the out side. If you want to get rid of the tree, you have to compromise the trunk and maybe the wind from the outside forces can help blow it down.
For all the Godwin's law guys spouting Holocaust allusions, the Jews who didn't flee when the riots and lynchings came out of dreams of "turning it all around" were beyond naïve. None of us want to believe the worst will happen, and it's even harder to admit it the closer you are. Sometimes, the outsiders saying "run" are right.
And sometimes the outsiders using Nazi analogies are too preoccupied with using Nazi analogies instead of actually offering anything meaningful.
Uh, they
couldn't leave. There was no friendly country next door to flee to, unlike Arizona/California. What tyrannical regime was Columbus speaking out against with his radical sailing demonstration?
Uh... there was a whole lot more country to run to, or run away to, than stand there on the East coast and fight a more capable military.
Off topic, but at the rate CA's debt is piling up, that may happen regardless, and at the rate Fed debt is accumulating, that will happen regardless.
Uh... in case you haven't heard, and I know many want to throw up what ever reason they can to bash another state, CA had a budget surplus announced a couple months ago.
What bugs us outsiders is the notion that living in an immoral condition of repression is somehow nobler than loosing your shackles. It's like Stockholm Syndrome, or something. I understand if you have reasons for staying that are more important than gun rights, but don't pretend your staying behind better serves the movement than if you were in a battleground state, all else being equal (except the gun laws)
To be fair, the outsiders portraying that it is somehow smarter to run and give up and compare this to some type of literal war and slavery but never cite any examples of it ever happening (retreating to the middle) or ever being successful aren't lending one shred of support or help.
Women didn't get the 19th passed by running away to states that allowed them to vote. The slaves didn't all leave... they stood up for what right. Rosa Parks didn't run away... she stood up for whats right.
Using the Nazi analogy is just lame. It sounds like the end all be all to an argument but it just doesn't apply.
Even if there was a sound strategy consisting of everyone retreating to the middle, its not plausible and completely unrealistic.
And if everyone did retreat to the middle, the huge financial impact would cause everyone in the country severe pain.
I can hear it now... all those states would be saying "they should have stay where they were and fought instead of causing this mess".
So once again, I'll quote a Mod since its very fitting.
Originally Posted by Robert View
If the only thing you have to say is move out of the state/ city then please keep your comments to yourself. They are not constructive or helpful in any manner. If you have something useful to say or some insight in to how one may make a change then please share. But telling someone to pick up their family and their life and move. That is just simply unhelpful.
We will also not engage in you get what you deserve. I would be willing to bet that the gun owners in NY state have been fighting as hard as they can. So either help, or get out of the conversation.
