For those bashing California gun owners, they lead the nation in progun money raised

[Inebriated]

No one doubts that CA, NY, NJ, CT, MA, etc gun owners are doing all they can. Those states need people from outside helping. Our founding fathers would be sorely disappointed in the grown men of this country allowing their own state to turn tyrannical, as well as the rest of the country sitting and watching.

I love you guys with the "just move" attitude. The best response I've read to that was in another thread...

"I get a kick out of how many allegedly left to preserve their gun rights. If you were doing well, making a good living, I'd venture to say very few would voluntarily leave. Sure, some may have left for that reason, but I'm thinking maybe some just weren't making it, but pointing fingers at (CA, NY, NJ, etc.) is so much easier than admitting failure."

That's a very childish response, if I'm honest. "I don't like what you said so I'm going to say you suck!"

 

[Tom609]

And I would say that the childishness is in the "just move" attitude. Then again, we can differ and I respect your opinion.

 

[Inebriated]

And I would say that the childishness is in the "just move" attitude. Then again, we can differ and I respect your opinion.

I think moving is a band aid, and offensive to every single person that fought to ensure those liberties, but the argument that "they must be failures if they care about liberty" is just completely unfounded, and reeks of hurt feelings.

 

[Mike1234567]

FWIW, I (and most others here) never stated that anyone "failed". All most of us ever stated is that moving out of the state decreases revenues of all kinds... so "maybe" the anti politicians will begin to care because it affects their personal wealth and power.

 

[oneounceload]

^^^Except then there is just that much more room for illegals to come n and then the feds give them even more handouts, so folks need to "Stand Your Ground" in those states and fight with everything they (and what we can provide) have

 

[Tom609]

"...some may have left for that reason, but I'm thinking maybe some just weren't making it..."

My comment was not meant to be a blanket statement, but I think "some" would be accurate. In any event, I think we will do much better if we do not allow ourselves to be divided. In the spirit of finding common ground, I apologize if I offended.

 

[Inebriated]

In any event, I think we will do much better if we do not allow ourselves to be divided.

That's the key.

 

[Nite Ryder]

Whacked said:

HexHead:
Your post pissed me off in so many ways.
Maybe its just a bad day for me but I better stop before I say something I may regret


The truth hurts! California is like it is because of the people who live there. Who do you think elected those people that control the government? It sure wasn't the people that live in another state. I hate to see Californian's move to my state, most of them want to change what we have now, and vote in a sales tax, etc. I say they deserve what they have, they voted for it and continue to vote for it...

 

[oneounceload]

Sorry Nite, but Oregon is one election away from being the same as CA - letting the folks in Eugene and Portland dictating what the entire state does; just like SF and LA doing the same in CA. WA is also real close as well.

There is a reason it is currently called the LEFT Coast and no longer the West Coast

 

[danez71]

Whacked said:

HexHead:
Your post pissed me off in so many ways.
Maybe its just a bad day for me but I better stop before I say something I may regret


The truth hurts! California is like it is because of the people who live there. Who do you think elected those people that control the government? It sure wasn't the people that live in another state. I hate to see Californian's move to my state, most of them want to change what we have now, and vote in a sales tax, etc. I say they deserve what they have, they voted for it and continue to vote for it...

Apparently you didn't read any of the thread or you're just trolling on purpose.

I'll give you then benefit of the doubt and break down really simple for you.


Pro 2A Californians ARE NOT the ones voting in the gun grabbers.

That's shouldn't be to hard for anyone to come to that conclusion except the trollers.

IF you cant add anything meaningful to the conversation... get out of it and keep your snide comments to yourself.

 

[lobo9er]

For everyone in "free states" just because it hasn't come your way yet, theres plenty of politician in your state that want to pass laws you wont agree with. As the country shrinks of its free states its slowly creeping its way to you. Dont be so bold to think it isn't. No state is safe, just safer than others.

 

[lobo9er]

Nyte ryder do you really think "they deserve what they have" is gonna fly here or fitting at all?

 

[SC Shooter]

With regards to the raging debate about "Just leave", I think this is analogous to the American automotive industry back in the '70's. When the quality of the American automobile got so bad that the people quit buying (and left) the manufacturers started building better quality cars and people once again started buying (and staying). Sometimes you get improvement when you bitch with your feet.

 

[Hokkmike]

I would never bash a fellow gun owner. What good would that do?

 

[danez71]

With regards to the raging debate about "Just leave", I think this is analogous to the American automotive industry back in the '70's. When the quality of the American automobile got so bad that the people quit buying (and left) the manufacturers started building better quality cars and people once again started buying (and staying). Sometimes you get improvement when you bitch with your feet.

But we aren't talking about consumer wanting a better product.

We're talking about Rights.

Women didn't flee to other states that allowed them to vote. They stood up, fought for their rights, and got the 19th Amendment passed.

Rosa Parks and the like didn't flee. They stood up, fought for their rights and won.


So please, someone... anyone.... come up with some examples of when people fled to another part of the country they gained, or regained, their rights and how it had a positive affect for the rest of the country.



I'm sure there are others that would like to know about the meat behind the 'run and flee' tactic that some are so willing to offerbut not substantiate with any logical or even historical backing.

 

[tomrkba]

Well I'm glad all you "just leave" folks don't live in California. We need people with guts to stand and fight, not just run away crying.

Now I understand--you think the fight has been effective thus far. Perhaps from the perspective of a "holding action" it has been successful.

There is no right to keep and bear arms in the California constitution. SCOTUS ruled that the Federal Second Amendment does not affect state action. SCOTUS is not going to save California gun rights. Therefore, Californians have guns at the whim of the legislature. The only way you are going to have gun RIGHTS in California is to demand it. You must demand the right to keep and bear arms as an amendment to the state's constitution and hold the legislature to it. Your only alternative is pointed violence against state politicians and nobody wants that.

Virginia may have elected MacIdjit, but that does not mean Virginia is going to experience gun control. First, we have a very strong right to keep and BEAR arms in Section 13 of our constitution that must be bypassed. We also have extremely strong case law supporting the right. We are the source of the open carry movement that started less an a decade ago. We have many very pro-rights counties and very active political groups. We also have many pro-rights Delegates and know how to exploit our system. California lacks the constitutional right and the damage must be repaired at the source before California gun owners can move forward with the right to keep and bear arms.

I would financially support a move by California gun owners to add the right to keep and bear arms as an amendment to the California constitution. Furthermore, I would assist in a national campaign to raise money and support. I believe such an amendment would require massive national gun owner support.

 

[oneounceload]

^^^It could be a LOT worse if they haven't been fighting; and once CA falls, so does the rest of the country - no matter if it is immigration, health care or some other social issue related.......

 

[lobo9er]

Buying a Toyota is different than leaving aging parents, grandparents, life long friends, a home, a small business built by yourself or your mother or father, finding new employment, children leaving schools leaving their friends, etc. For those that say "move" as if its just that easy either aren't as rooted where they are or haven't thought it through.

 

[danez71]

There is no right to keep and bear arms in the California constitution. SCOTUS ruled that the Federal Second Amendment does not affect state action. SCOTUS is not going to save California gun rights.

Don't keep on current events much?

The court {SCOTUS} would rule on the issue again two years later as part of McDonald v. City of Chicago, which challenged the city's ban on private handgun ownership. In a similar 5-to-4 ruling, the court affirmed its decision in the Heller case, saying the Second Amendment "applies equally to the federal government and the states."

 

[Inebriated]

Buying a Toyota is different than leaving aging parents, grandparents, life long friends, a home, a small business built by yourself or your mother or father, finding new employment, children leaving schools leaving their friends, etc. For those that say "move" as if its just that easy either aren't as rooted where they are or haven't thought it through.

The same argument could be said for every single person who fought a tyrannical government to form the country you live in today. I'm not saying any state is worth abandoning, because NO state can decide what parts of the Constitution they will or will not adhere to, but to counter the "just move" crowd with "it's hard" is a slap in the face to the people who died to try and form a country that is based around liberty, as is just leaving and allowing the POS people and politicians in that state to turn it into whatever oppressive state they want without a fight.

 

[rritterson]

California bashing is something of a national pastime. It's fine--our lives are good enough that we just tune the bashers out, so feel free.

California, New Jersey, New York and Illinois are the most likely places for the next SCOTUS case on the 2nd to come from. Those cases start at the district level, and may not attract national attention at first, meaning they'll be funded by a statewide organization. CGF just scored the first hit on a lawsuit to eliminate our waiting period and appears to have struck a nerve with a judge who appears all but ready to apply strict scrutiny to the process of buying a firearm, a decision that could have significant federal implications. Funding for organizations like CGF is critical for the suits to be filed and fought well. (As a counter example, a CA appeals court virtually ruled CA assault weapons laws can be prosecuted under constructive possession in a case argued by a criminal defense attorney with no 2nd amendment practice experience)

Yes, we have to fight harder and that costs money. But it's ridiculous to assume that we should automatically raise more money because we have more people in one breath, then talk about how gun owners are such a minority here in another. If we're such a minority here, it's even MORE impressive we raised the most.

And you should be thankful it is California that are raising the most. We can't wave a wand and make California gun laws go away, but at least we have the strongest firepower where the war is being fought the fiercest.

 

[goon]

On the "move to a free state" argument, I have to admit that I'm not planning to move to a state where a 30 round Pmag will get me criminal charges.

I also don't blame the people who think like us for what urban majorities have forced on them in California. The problem is widespread - generally it is cities that decide that since their inhabitants are afraid of Glocks, Glocks should be banned for everyone in the state, even when they're 200 miles away and immersed in an entirely different culture.

But... are there any states where a relatively small growth in the population and voting power of the pro-2A folks could tip the balance back and allow some gun control to be repealed? If there are, I could see an argument in favor of moving a bunch of pro-gun voters in to some key areas of "bad" states to effect some meaningful changes. After all, Montana and Texas are what they are and they're probably not going to go they way of New York any time soon, so if some of us could take a 5 year break or so from our free states, maybe we could shift a couple bad states back.

 

[Mike1234567]

If we never bash each other's actions, or lack of actions, occasionally then how will we ever open our minds to our own weaknesses?

 

[lobo9er]

Mike agree but I think the gun owners in cali are not lazy for the most part and do their fair share of pro gun activities. Especially the members here from cali.

 

[improperlyaged]

I doubt there is any hope left for CA when it comes to gun rights. Only way to win is to leave, they're just that far gone...

This.

I hear the excuses all the time "I can't just get up and move my family..." "I have a job and bills to pay..." "My family lives here..."

No one is telling you to move today. Yes keep up the fight, all the while preparing to leave. Save up some money, make arrangements, look for another job in a free state while continuing the efforts to stop whatever else they try to steal from you. But treat it like a business that puts up no guns signs. They don't have to get your tax dollars, you have the option of leaving.