For those who think felons should never have guns...

[shockwave]

Social justice? What are you, a Saul Alinsky fan? That's become a pretty ugly phrase, a concept largely embraced the the radical left wing of American politics.

What other words are now verbotten for upstanding Americans? "Environment"? "Empathy"? "Civil rights"? I'll bet the list is a long one.

 

[Tilos]

Oh Good...thrown out, dropped, etc.

Great,they only had to spend their kids college money on an attorny

Re-elect no one

 

[SuperNaut]

Are the people itt some of the same people who say the the 2A is their permit? Pretending that laws are uniform, immutable, and absolute is a really naive POV.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Are you suggesting that every criminal commits his criminal act for a worthy social purpose? Exactly how did Bernie Maddoff's huge fraud further the interests of social justice? Is someone capable of such evil and such chicanery, even if non-violent, worthy of being trusted with a gun?

Like it or not in the American model for a law to be challenged it must be broken. I've often thought it reflects the Founders' sense of humor that even the dregs of society would serve to help protect the rights of the individual. If you take a journey through all the landmark decisions in front of the Supreme Court the principles were pretty unsavory characters. For example the on topic decision of the Miller decision, no one would want Miller for a neighbor but his case decided the limits of the 2nd for decades. Likewise Miranda was nothing more than a punk but his case protects the accused to this day.

 

[Frank Ettin]

And that's what happened here, although at some level of cost and inconvenience to the accused. All due to overzealous prosecution, and choosing to charge under a statute that didn't apply. Surely you recognize that the judge wouldn't have thrown the case out without going to trial if the prosecutorial actions had not been egregious.

No, the dismissal of charges is not always because of overzealous or egregious actions by a prosecutor. Sometimes there can be reasonable disagreement about how a statute applies or what the evidence shows. That's why we have the adversarial system and why we have judges.

And sometimes judges can be wrong, which is why we have multiple layers of appeal.

...Social justice? What are you, a Saul Alinsky fan?...

I see you didn't follow the post.

It was nyrifleman who pointed to Rosa Parks, apparently for the proposition that sometimes a law may be violated for a supposed worthy purpose. My point is that is a rare occurrence, and most of the time criminal acts are simply criminal acts.

 

[Warhawk83]

I know a guy from CA. He and his wife got into an argument out on their front lawn, she commenced to slinging him around the yard ( she's big,he's little, heheh). The cops came,said someone had to go to jail.He volunteered and CA made him a felon.No guns for Pedro...

I've talked to his wife, the WHOLE thing was blown out of proportion. Nothing more than her shoving him around. They went in front of a judge a few timesto try to get it taken care of but eventually gave up.

 

[DammitBoy]

I have no problem with Stupid being a felony.

 

[Jamie B]

I have no problem with Stupid being a felony.

Factor in the 3 strikes law, and pretty soon 75% of the US polulation will be jailed for life.

The up side, though, would be all of the politicians who would be on death row.

 

[pty101]

unfortunately politicians seem to get away with breaking the same laws they make. This is an example of why there should be a distinction between violent and non-violent felons with the non-violent felons having some sort of path to regaining their rights

 

[DCR]

I think the highly judgmental types who think the mere accusation of a crime (grand jury standard = probable cause, the same low standard a prosecutor can swear to in filing a felony or misdemeanor complaint, or that an officer uses when determining whether to arrest someone) or the commission of any nonviolent crime, felony or misdemeanor, somehow shows a lack of character, honesty, impulse control or judgment that renders the person incapable of being trustworthy for life need to move into glass houses.

Please, people - word is that the last perfect person died a couple thousand years ago; being less perfect than He, we, as humans are going to err. Get off your high horses and follow His good book's "judge not lest ye be judged" admonition, because humble pie is reportedly cold, dry and un-tasty. I've seen it eaten many a time when I had to prosecute the sanctimonious hardcore "law and order" community types (or their children), and witnessed many a conversion to tolerance thereafter.

We should be pressuring our congressmen to fully fund the office within BATFE that handles restoration of firearms rights cases, something that has never been done, rather than judging those who have paid their time and debt to their victims and society, yet still are prohibited from full participation in American citizenship.

BTW - while many states reinstate voting privileges to felons, almost none allow felons to serve as jurors, regardless of any other rights restorations.

 

[heviarti]

In other countries the young are fighting for their right to receive an education. Here they do everything they can to fight against getting one.

That being said I've faced felony charges twice. Once was in highschool when one of the sadistic football monkies run up and blindsided me in the temple. He also broke my glasses. I managed to stand up, and put my pen into the blur in front of me three times. He slunk off like a wounded chimp. I was charged for that. The prosecutor felt it was wrong to have 'weapons' in school. I felt it was wrong to expect me to fight hand to hand without my sight.

The other time was for throwing a drug dealer out of my house. I came home to find him carrying on with my girlfriend. (an ex boyfriend of hers I guess) I told him to get the @&*# out of my house. He said If I tried to make him leave I'd end up dead. I told him whatever, ****. He said "I'm getting my gun", and ran to the other room. I barricaded myself in my room and grabbed the Garand. Before I could go out the window to flank the guy, (den where he was had control of the hall, If I poked my head out that door I was a target.) Of all things, the g/f busted the door and struck me in the head with a glass tumbler, and tried to wrest my rifle from me. (at this point I decided we should see other people) Dude ran past the door (with what appeared to be a large semiauto pistol), And I went for him. Girl blocked the door, and I won't hit a woman. In the end he made himself out to be the victim. And since he hid his pistol when he left the house, I was kinda boned. The Jury actually refused to hear it, but the prosecutor threatened them with something (don't know what, heard this from one of the jurors later) But all they could find was displaying a firearm. I did get thrown in jail over it, and the next day the same guy went to my mother's home and attacked her. The prosecutor blocked that fact from being presented to the jury. I have NO FAITH in our legal system.

 

[mregunz]

If you got 3 stikes you get what you deserve.And forgery is still forgery no matter how you cut it.Shoulda stay'd on the right side of the law.And they'd of been fine.No sympathy for stupid.Or crimanal's

 

[Carl N. Brown]

There are seven serious violent felonies that should be punished by denial of the felon's right to keep and bear arms:
* Murder
* Armed Robbery
* Assault and Battery
* Rape
* High Treason
* Piracy
* Talking in the theater.
But quite frankly
* forging a doctor’s note to excuse your third-grade son from school
ain't one of them in my book.

For the absolute state, the path to absolute control is to make so many conflicting felony laws, everyone is a felon therefore society as a whole becomes a prison.

(OK, "talking in the theater" is not a violent act, but it has been proven to provoke violent responses, and thus is a clear and present threat to public tranquility.)

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

so certain forgeries are ok? or at least certain forgeries of a doctors name are ok? which ones aren't? prescriptions? just some prescriptions? its ok if its a "victimless crime"?

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Saying it should not be a felony != say it is OK. No forgeries are OK: just that some should be misdemeanor offenses. We are not in Alice in Wonderland, where the Red Queen's response is always "Off with their heads!" OK, maybe we are, but we shouldn't be. When the law loses balance, the law loses respect.

 

[Jamie B]

Forgery can involve the false making of anything handwritten, typewritten, computer generated, printed or engraved from scratch that is intended to defraud. Forgery can also involve significant material alteration of a genuine document. This can include forgery involving false signatures or improperly filling out forms. A document is considered forgery if it looks authentic enough to deceive a reasonable person. It must also have some legal significance in order to be considered unlawful. Forgery also includes the possession of any forged document or forgery device with knowledge of its purpose.

From this link

The 'some legal significance' part is the key.

 

[GoWolfpack]

Saying it should not be a felony != say it is OK.

See. So simple even a programmer could do it.

Nobody is arguing that forging a note from a doctor is right, proper, or commendable. Just that it should not warrant a felony charge.



In an attempt to "compromise" with people who really wish they could ban guns entirely, pro-gunners usually agree that felons should be prohibited from possessing guns. We just don't seem to realize that the people who get to decide which offenses are felonies are the ones who want to ban guns entirely

 

[Frank Ettin]

...We should be pressuring our congressmen to fully fund the office within BATFE that handles restoration of firearms rights cases, something that has never been done, rather than judging those who have paid their time and debt to their victims and society, yet still are prohibited from full participation in American citizenship....

And I do agree with that. People can change, and someone convicted of a crime should have a reasonable opportunity to demonstrate that he has learned from the experience and is now trustworthy. But I'm not sympathetic to those who have been convicted of crimes complaining that the cost to them for their criminal behavior turned out to be more than they were willing to pay.

Many people manage to get through life and deal with the stresses and problems of life, and their needs and wants, without committing crimes.

I think the highly judgmental types who think the mere accusation of a crime (grand jury standard = probable cause, the same low standard a prosecutor can swear to in filing a felony or misdemeanor complaint, or that an officer uses when determining whether to arrest someone) ... renders the person incapable of being trustworthy for life ...

No one has said that indictment or the filing of a criminal complaint makes one untrustworthy for life. But the fact is that if there is probable cause to conclude that you have committed a crime, your freedom is significantly curtailed while the matter is pending and unless it is resolved in your favor. And it's been like that for a very long time.

If you are indicted or the prosecutor files charges, you will be arrested, booked and spend some time in jail until the matter of bail or release on your own recognizance can be dealt with. If you are allowed bail, or bail in an amount you can pay, you will either have to post money or property with the court to assure your presence in court when required, or pay a bonding company to do so.

And depending on the circumstances and the law in the jurisdiction, other steps will be taken to try to assure that you stick around to see things through, whatever the final result. Assets may be frozen, and your passport confiscated. And you won't be allowed lawful access to firearms.

That's the way things are right now in real life. It doesn't bother me. If it bothers you, you can write your legislators, but I don't think you'll see a whole lot of political support for much change.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

so no forgeries are felonies? just some? i take someone forging my name pretty serious been arrested because of it before. its good the rest of you are so open minded.

 

[Jamie B]

In an attempt to "compromise" with people who really wish they could ban guns entirely, pro-gunners usually agree that felons should be prohibited from possessing guns. We just don't seem to realize that the people who get to decide which offenses are felonies are the ones who want to ban guns entirely

Excellent point! Appreciate your honesty calling this out.

 

[DammitBoy]

I have no problem with "Off with their heads" as a solution to felons.

 

[mregunz]

Good Job cassandrasdaddy,I bet most of these people would see it diff. if it was stolen chk's and name forged,and they lost money outta there bank account.There is no diff. forgery is forgery.And all felon's should loose there right to own.And if they didn't wanna lose the right they shoulda thought of that before they did what they did to get bust'd.No body want's to take responsibility for there own action's anymore.That's a major prob. in this world and this country.It's alway's the other guies for what they did .And the devil made them do it.Lack of responsibility is a major prob.

 

[jon_in_wv]

cassandrasdaddy is an obvious TROLL. He is just trying to stir up trouble and keep the board of subject. He just posts over and over that people are arguing that forgery is ok when no one is. Put him on your ignore list, I did.

 

[Onward Allusion]

Boggles my little mind...

That a person stating that this type of forgery doesn't equate to a felony is somehow morally flawed.

I don't think anyone claimed that what the parents did was right or that it wasn't a crime. However - a felony??? What was the intent?

Yes, intent makes a huge difference. The parents should be charged with a misdemeanor not something that would take away their civil rights, including their RKBA.

 

[mregunz]

OFCOURSE forgery is a felony if ya wanna dance,ya gotta pay the piper.Or another good cliche "Do the crime, do the time".