Found an interesting website

[Roundeyesamurai]

Doesn't work that way
We're not here to do your homework, if you can disprove the information that he was given do so
Penguin made a statement and provided what source he could and also CLEARLY stated that this was second hand info.
Roundeye has simply called him a liar and resorted to uncalled for personal attacks.

Translation:

You're unwillingly to do something extremely simple to find out who is correct and who is not, especially since you already have a "side" of the "debate" that you already prefer, and are afraid to be proven incorrect.

 

[joab]

Translation:

You're unwillingly to do something extremely simple to find out who is correct and who is not, especially since you already have a "side" of the "debate" that you already prefer, and are afraid to be proven incorrect.

Translation:
How dare any of you question a self appointed expert like me.
I can't be bothered to actually prove my own statements

especially since you already have a "side" of the "debate" that you already prefer, and are afraid to be proven incorrect.

There's that whole reading comprehension thing again

Please show me where I have made any statement for or against Glock on this entire forum
Please show me where I have made any statement for or against anything here except your vitriol

You made a statement of fact and refuse to back it up and I'm the one that's afraid to be proven wrong?

 

[Roundeyesamurai]

Translation:
How dare any of you question a self appointed expert like me.
I can't be bothered to actually prove my own statements

You made a statement of fact and refuse to back it up and I'm the one that's afraid to be proven wrong?

I have provided information which is easily confirmable, to those who are so inclined. Since it's exceedingly difficult to document a telephone call (in a way which would be satisfactory to internet pundits such as yourself), you'll just have to call them yourself (it's a free call, BTW, they have a toll free number).

Or, you can continue denying the truth, instead of confirming for yourself if what I am saying is true or not.

You'll find that I have just as low a tolerance for people who refuse to check facts, as I do for gunshop/keyboard commando experts such as "Penguin".

 

[joab]

Or, you can continue denying the truth, instead of confirming for yourself if what I am saying is true or not.

There you go again what truth have I denied, I have simply asked for you to back your claim like everybody else here is asked to do

You'll find that I have just as low a tolerance for people who refuse to check facts, as I do for gunshop/keyboard commando experts such as "Penguin".

As you will find that most here have little patience for the type of name calling and personal attacks you seemed to have to resort to.

Penguin simply relayed some information he was told how does that make him a keyboard commando.
He's not the one passing himself off as the expert while refusing to back up his claims here.

The only thing you have proven so far is that you are very much an ignorable sort

 

[Roundeyesamurai]

There you go again what truth have I denied, I have simply asked for you to back your claim like everybody else here is asked to do

The backing up id for you to make a free call to Glock to confirm what I am saying. What part of this do you fail to understand?

You expect me to provide documentation of a phone call?

CALL THEM! IT'S FREE!

As you will find that most here have little patience for the type of name calling and personal attacks you seemed to have to resort to.

Penguin simply relayed some information he was told how does that make him a keyboard commando.
He's not the one passing himself off as the expert while refusing to back up his claims here.

The only thing you have proven so far is that you are very much an ignorable sort

When you have no argument, resort to making the winner look bad.

Typical internet BS.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

joab, what would you have him do? He caught Penguin in a statement his experience and logic led him to believe was incorrect. To prove his suspecions, he called Glock. As he already mentioned, it is pretty difficult to document or record a phone call. But the phone call is free so if you are really so concerned, there is nothing holding you back.

Penguin has done far less to support his statements and has left no one any avenue to falsify them. Roundeye has at least given anyone with interest in the debate a way to confirm or deny what he is saying.

 

[joab]

No he has come in calling another member a liar without backing up his insult.

He has accused him of making a statement of fact when he clearly was relaying second hand information as second hand information

You expect me to provide documentation of a phone call?

If you were as smart as you seem to be you should be able to think of a way to provide proof of communication.
I've done it here on this forum why can't you

You expect me to provide documentation of a phone call?

I expect you to prove yourself when you call someone a liar

When you have no argument, resort to making the winner look bad.

Are we in third grade?
What have you won
Did you somehow back up your claim when I wasn't looking?
Did you find something in my posts to back up your other claims of my opinions already being formed?

Have you proved any of your claims about anything?

 

[R.H. Lee]

My bottom line advice to you is to buy the finest double-action automatic you can afford. Buy one with a 3 safety system -- a lock on the firing pin released by the trigger movement and a manual safety that locks the firing pin and blocks it from the hammer

And just to be extra safe, be sure to leave the pistol and the magazines unloaded. In fact, make sure the magazines are in the next zip code. And don't forget to keep a trigger lock in place with the cable through the trigger guard and open slide. And mail the key to the trigger lock to your uncle in Detroit and have him put it in a safe deposit box.

Can't be too careful.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Doesn't work that way
We're not here to do your homework, if you can disprove the information that he was given do so
Penguin made a statement and provided what source he could and also CLEARLY stated that this was second hand info.
Roundeye has simply called him a liar and resorted to uncalled for personal attacks.

I think we are wasting our time here. He is obviously the "easily set off" sort that immediately resorts to attacks. In my old line of work I had to deal with this all the time...of course most of them were troubled teens (case worker for homeless youth). He is supposedly (maybe we should ask him to prove it ) a retired police officer. I was a police officer for a very short time before getting activated and sent to GWI and I am not completely unfamiliar with this type of officer. The type that has a chip on their should and something to prove and give other level headed, honorable men a bad reputation. Then again maybe he wasn't this "cantankerous" when he was an active LEO. Maybe that came with age.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

And just to be extra safe, be sure to leave the pistol and the magazines unloaded. In fact, make sure the magazines are in the next zip code. And don't forget to keep a trigger lock in place with the cable through the trigger guard and open slide. And mail the key to the trigger lock to your uncle in Detroit and have him put it in a safe deposit box.

Can't be too careful.

I have always found it safest to completely disassemple the weapon all together and then bury the pieces in different states. Make sure to keep the map handy in case you need to quickly reassemble though.

 

[bluto]

Yes, I LOOOOOOOVE to chop up LIARS.

Man, I thought this was THE HIGH ROAD.

Personally, I doubt the $73 cost. Asking for proof and debating the issue is one thing. Resorting to personal insults is just uncalled for and undermines the credibility of your posts.

 

[Roundeyesamurai]

Man, I thought this was THE HIGH ROAD.

Personally, I doubt the $73 cost. Asking for proof and debating the issue is one thing. Resorting to personal insults is just uncalled for and undermines the credibility of your posts.

The credibility of my posts comes in people confirming what I say and KNOWING that it is correct.

If someone is unwilling to be proven wrong, or is unwilling to independently confirm information, or is unwilling to aggressively seek out the facts, then I have no use for them.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

If someone is unwilling to be proven wrong, or is unwilling to independently confirm information, or is unwilling to aggressively seek out the facts, then I have no use for them.

Ditto.

Obviously if it was near as important validate what you're saying, he could have made a phone call. He has so he isn't, even if he claims to be.

 

[meef]

And then, some people just enjoy debate for its own sake.

As long as there are takers, the game will continue.

 

[joab]

And then some are just sick and tired of members( usually relatively new) coming in in and spewing crap and simply trying to start fights.
They use the juvenile and/or asinine techniques of misquoting, lies of omission, and in may cases merely making things up and attributing them to whoever they feel like attacking.

I really couldn't care less what a Glock costs to make and never even hinted that I did.
I simply took exception to a member being called a liar when that was clearly not the case.

A simple "your friend misinformed you and here is why I say that" would have been much better received than smart assed insults and personal attacks.

And the demonstrated lack of reading comprehension skills is appalling on these forums.

These sites are no longer places to exchange ideas and are becoming places for people to come and try to show how smart they are by demonstrating how ignorant they are.


If your claim is strong enough to call some one a liar it should be strong enough to have some kind of proof attached to it.

It is beyond my comprehension that someone typing on a computer on the Internet cannot figure out how to validate a correspondence

Obviously if it was near as important validate what you're saying, he could have made a phone call. He has so he isn't, even if he claims to be.

Once again it is not our job to prove your points, I will not do your homework for you.
Proving statements is expected of all the others and you are no better than they

 

[Roundeyesamurai]

And then some are just sick and tired of members( usually relatively new) coming in in and spewing crap and simply trying to start fights.
They use the juvenile and/or asinine techniques of misquoting, lies of omission, and in may cases merely making things up and attributing them to whoever they feel like attacking.

I really couldn't care less what a Glock costs to make and never even hinted that I did.
I simply took exception to a member being called a liar when that was clearly not the case.

A simple "your friend misinformed you and here is why I say that" would have been much better received than smart assed insults and personal attacks.

And the demonstrated lack of reading comprehension skills is appalling on these forums.

These sites are no longer places to exchange ideas and are becoming places for people to come and try to show how smart they are by demonstrating how ignorant they are.


If your claim is strong enough to call some one a liar it should be strong enough to have some kind of proof attached to it.

It is beyond my comprehension that someone typing on a computer on the Internet cannot figure out how to validate a correspondence

Since I have already responded to this exact same post multiple times now, I won't bother to reiterate.

I will say this, however: It's fascinating that no matter where you go on the internet, no matter how frequently a particular forum is claimed to be "different", one finds the same behavior, the same "debate" methods, and the same perpetual lack of both reason and knowledge of the subject matter.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

joab, fair enough. I can see that point too. But why pick only on Roundeye? This situation would have been just as easily resolved by asking both parties to present proof than merely challenging one member. And like Samuri said, providing proof of a phone call is difficult. If Penguin would provide support then by process of elimination we would know who is telling the truth and the ordeal would be complete.

I have decided I don't much care either. My experience leads me to believe the Glock is fully on par with the HK USP series so even if Glock does have a significant mark up in price to their non-law enforcement consumers, it is not nearly as much as HK for the same quality of pistol. So I will continue to pay $500 for a new Glock cause to get anything else of equal or better quality, it is going to cost me more.

 

[Roundeyesamurai]

joab, fair enough. I can see that point too. But why pick only on Roundeye? This situation would have been just as easily resolved by asking both parties to present proof than merely challenging one member. And like Samuri said, providing proof of a phone call is difficult. If Penguin would provide support then by process of elimination we would know who is telling the truth and the ordeal would be complete.

Precisely.

Incidentally, Glock's phone number is 770 432 1202.

I have decided I don't much care either. My experience leads me to believe the Glock is fully on par with the HK USP series so even if Glock does have a significant mark up in price to their non-law enforcement consumers, it is not nearly as much as HK for the same quality of pistol. So I will continue to pay $500 for a new Glock cause to get anything else of equal or better quality, it is going to cost me more.

Glock doesn't "markup" their guns for the civilian market.

The "law enforcement price" is the price without excise tax, importation duties, shipping from Glock to the distributor, distributor's markup (since manufacturers can't sell directly to the public, but they can sell directly to government agencies), shipping from the distributor to the dealer (since distributors don't sell directly to the public), dealer's markup, and (where applicable) state and local taxes.

In other words, the extra $250 between the contract price and the MSRP, is all taxes and middlemen.

 

[joab]

This situation would have been just as easily resolved by asking both parties to present proof than merely challenging one member. And like Samuri said, providing proof of a phone call is difficult. If Penguin would provide support then by process of elimination we would know who is telling the truth and the ordeal would be complete.

Penguin related second hand info which he clearly marked as second hand info.
Roundeye then, through selective use of the quote feature(, attributed those remarks to Penguin personally and called him a liar.

So in effect Roundeye called Penguin a liar for presenting second hand info, but nobody including Penguin called Roundeye a liar for also presenting second hand info.

Penguin has admittedly attributed his info to unverifiable hearsay
Roundeye has attributed his second hand info to a verifiable, but not wholly unimpeachable, source but refuses to substantiate that claim other than to launch unnecessary insults at Penguin and to make asinine inductive leaps about anybody that does not unquestionably go along with his position.

In short if you are going to call someone a liar then you and nobody else have the obligation to prove it
Which in this case cannot be done because Penguin made no statement of fact he merely relayed admittedly second hand info that may or may not have been correct

Incidentally, Glock's phone number is 770 432 1202.

Incidentally it's not my job to do your job.

Liike asking a Glock sales rep
"Is it true that the gun you market for over $500 only costs $73 to make"? is going to get anything but a marketing response whether it's true or not

 

[Roundeyesamurai]

Roundleye has attributed his second hand info to a verifiable, but not wholly unimpeachable, source but refuses to substantiate that claim other than to launch unnecessary insults at Penguin and to make asinine inductive leaps about anybody that does not unquestionably go along with his position.

In short if you are going to call someone a liar then you and nobody else have the obligation to prove it must prove it.
Which in this case cannot be done because Penguin made no statement of fact he merely relayed admittedly second hand info that may or may not have been correct

Hopefully, seeing this in big letters will make you finally comprehend it:

THE CLAIM IS SUBSTANTIABLE!!!

WHAT PART OF "PICK UP THE PHONE" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???

WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING THE SAME LAME POST OVER AND OVER AGAIN???

 

[Mad Chemist]

How am I backpeddling? I did not change my original post and I clearly say "he said". I also do not remember saying I am in possession of the invoice...I said I "saw" one. Maybe you should work on the reading comprehension a little bit. Where is the information you are using to tell me I am wrong? Do you work for Multnomah County in Oregon? Do you purchase their firearms? Or maybe you work for Glock. We all know firearms employees post on these boards. I would be glad to take your word over his if this is the case. As for my opinions, I am entitled to them and I clearly presented them as such. I stated my opinion of the firearm in question and you are welcome to state yours. Instead you choose to attack a person instead of offering any counter points.

Hey pal, I live in OR and have a couple friends in various PDs. But that still makes it third hand info by the time it hits this board. And it still doesn't change the fact that you're full of crap. Maybe if I scanned a sworn affidavit from a couple of officers you'd ****, but I seriously doubt it. Some people just love the sound of their own voice and the sight of their own words. Here we call them trolls.

I respect critcism regarding Glocks when it comes from people who have actually SHOT one. The only thing Glocks are truly lacking are pleasant aesthetics.

BTW, since you live in WA, could you please stop making references that give the appearance that you are an Oregonian. You're making the rest of us look bad.

JH

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Hey pal, I live in OR and have a couple friends in various PDs. But that still makes it third hand info by the time it hits this board. And it still doesn't change the fact that you're full of crap. Maybe if I scanned a sworn affidavit from a couple of officers you'd ****, but I seriously doubt it. Some people just love the sound of their own voice and the sight of their own words. Here we call them trolls.

I respect critcism regarding Glocks when it comes from people who have actually SHOT one. The only thing Glocks are truly lacking are pleasant aesthetics.

BTW, since you live in WA, could you please stop making references that give the appearance that you are an Oregonian. You're making the rest of us look bad.

JH

Sorry, but I do live in Oregon also. I have a home in Washington and one in Portland. As for making you look bad...if you DO in fact look bad I am afraid that is something for which I cannot take credit.

 

[joab]

THE CLAIM IS SUBSTANTIABLE!!!

Then substantiate it

WHAT PART OF "PICK UP THE PHONE" DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???

The part where I should spend my time and money to make a call to do something that is your responsibility to do

WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING THE SAME LAME POST OVER AND OVER AGAIN???

Because you obviously either lack the reading comprehension to get it the first time or your ego is too big to recognize that you are in the wrong for unnecessarily and wrongfully calling a member a liar and misrepresenting things said by someone else and merely relayed by him as being statements of fact made by him.

 

[joab]

Mad Chemist
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 203

Another newbie speaks
I give up
The ass hats are taking over
I'm done

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Clarification...sort of

Just spoke to my friend who told me about the Glocks for Portland police force (he is now with the Multnomah Country Sheriff's office). I asked him about it again and he sticks to his story. He did elaberate a little even. He says that sometime between 1998-2001 (he was not completely sure so I will just post the range he gave me) he was in charge of a purchase of 50 Glocks for an "at cost" (not to be mistaken with wholesale) price of $3,650. These where to be used for training purposes. He did not handle the larger order that was to follow later which was to provide force wide replacement of the current weapons at the time. He said he did not know what was paid for the main order but that at the time an officer who was required to pay to replace a weapon was charged $115. As for Glock bashing, I stated above in an earlier post, if I actually owned one I might fall in love with one, but as far as the ones I have shot at ranges 9either rented or borrowed) I was not impressed.