Mascoma
Member
Do what YOUR gut tells you to do and what you already know is the right thing to do. If you didn't already know the right thing to do you wouldn't be looking for a way out of it.
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- Thread starter Duke of Doubt
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richyoung
Member
Secure the firearms to prevent unauthorized use and any rfirther degradation. Make a "due dilligence" effort to locate rightful owner. If no luck, keep and enjoy. FYI, a known aircraft wreck wil lusually have been marked with paint in some way so that air search and rescue will know that the A/C is an old wreck when out looking for a new wreck. Get the "N" number and you should be able to seacrch for the aircraft incident report.
Duke of Doubt
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Ah -- excelling point, richyoung. By "undocumented," I was being a little bit parochial. I meant "undocumented" from the standpoint of area wreckchasers -- not necessarily "undocumented" from the standpoint of NTSB/FAA. As I/my client hypothetically have no interest in disturbing the decades-old wreck (let's say it wasn't the particular wreck I/he/we were looking for), we may assume that an archaeological dig for identifying numbers on airframe/engine parts or to determine the wreck's provenance would be out of the question, and that what is involved is basically some baggage, personal effects, clothing and small aircraft parts scattered across a most unusual debris field in exceptionally rugged terrain, explaining how such items could go unnoticed or fail to be recovered in such a general aviation incident in a remote, inaccessible location, and be preserved. Lots of these in Maine, by the way. Seaplanes flip into a bog and disappear for years, or clip a ridgeline of trees and scatter their bits down a wooded slope during a rainstorm; stuff goes everywhere.
Local wrecks tend not to get tagged, as they rarely are visible from the air anyway, and often end up in very small pieces due to the rugged terrain. Of course, that's part of the reason there are so many lost wrecks in the first place. We've been looking for Charles Nungesser and Francois Coli since 1927:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Bird
Local wrecks tend not to get tagged, as they rarely are visible from the air anyway, and often end up in very small pieces due to the rugged terrain. Of course, that's part of the reason there are so many lost wrecks in the first place. We've been looking for Charles Nungesser and Francois Coli since 1927:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Bird
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richyoung
Member
I don't see firearms, or anything else, rusting away in the woods is good for anybody... I say recover, find the owners if you can. The N number should be painted on both sides of the tail/rear fuselage, and on at least one wing - you shouldn't have to dig to find it.
rbernie
Contributing Member
So, DoD - what didya find and what have you decided to do with it?
CoRoMo
Member
Stumble upon a crash site, decayed bodies, and I'm gonna sneak away with the guns on board? Nope.
Not to include property co-mingled with human remains? Sure. I'd always be interested to acquire a nice firearm that nobody else particularly wants; as long as I can look myself in the mirror afterward.
Not to include property co-mingled with human remains? Sure. I'd always be interested to acquire a nice firearm that nobody else particularly wants; as long as I can look myself in the mirror afterward.
ThrottleJockey
member
I would consider the fact that an insurance company somewhere has paid a claim to family members, and they actually now "own" the remains/property. But, do they WANT it?
Flyboy
Member
It depends.
If I was walking through the woods and stumbled across the wreck, I'd be inclined to at least attempt to return it, although the legitimate owner at that point may actually be an insurance company, not the family.
If I bought or otherwise owned the salvage rights--as is implied by the fact that you said an "expedition," a deliberate action--whatever I find is mine, subject to the terms of whatever contract I have with the previous owner. I might still try to find the family of the individual, but I would consider that to be my choice, not any particular moral duty: the duty ends when I acquire the rights to the wreck.
Short answer: details matter.
If I was walking through the woods and stumbled across the wreck, I'd be inclined to at least attempt to return it, although the legitimate owner at that point may actually be an insurance company, not the family.
If I bought or otherwise owned the salvage rights--as is implied by the fact that you said an "expedition," a deliberate action--whatever I find is mine, subject to the terms of whatever contract I have with the previous owner. I might still try to find the family of the individual, but I would consider that to be my choice, not any particular moral duty: the duty ends when I acquire the rights to the wreck.
Short answer: details matter.
Mr.510
Member
Keep 'em!
If you have every *legal right* to said guns and the *only* question is whether or not it is morally OK to do so I say it's OK to keep them. Whether it is a hobby or business you are spending your time and money (same thing, really) to search for lost treasure. Apparently you found it. You have secured the legal right to salvage whatever you may find. You found guns. I don't think guns are ethically any different than airplane parts, an old hat, a bag of garbage, or anything else lying about abandoned in the woods. This isn't like the guy that forgot his Glock at the range, this stuff has been abandoned in the woods for decades. I would make sure the FAA has the GPS coordinates to the wreck, in case you were the first to find it. A "decades old" wreck of a small plane isn't even going to be seriously investigated unless there was a known crime involved in it's demise or someone very important was on board. Document anything you disturb with many photographs and tell the FAA you found this apparently "uncharted" wreck in the woods. If they decide to investigate it beyond poking around for human remains they will contact you to find out what you saw, did, found, and took. You will have done nothing wrong by keeping the salvage you were looking for, either legally or morally.
If at some point you are at liberty to say who found what and what they did with it some of us are a little curious....
If you have every *legal right* to said guns and the *only* question is whether or not it is morally OK to do so I say it's OK to keep them. Whether it is a hobby or business you are spending your time and money (same thing, really) to search for lost treasure. Apparently you found it. You have secured the legal right to salvage whatever you may find. You found guns. I don't think guns are ethically any different than airplane parts, an old hat, a bag of garbage, or anything else lying about abandoned in the woods. This isn't like the guy that forgot his Glock at the range, this stuff has been abandoned in the woods for decades. I would make sure the FAA has the GPS coordinates to the wreck, in case you were the first to find it. A "decades old" wreck of a small plane isn't even going to be seriously investigated unless there was a known crime involved in it's demise or someone very important was on board. Document anything you disturb with many photographs and tell the FAA you found this apparently "uncharted" wreck in the woods. If they decide to investigate it beyond poking around for human remains they will contact you to find out what you saw, did, found, and took. You will have done nothing wrong by keeping the salvage you were looking for, either legally or morally.
If at some point you are at liberty to say who found what and what they did with it some of us are a little curious....
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