Friend got harassed by the police for OC

[TexasRifleman]

Officer, are you detaining me ( if yes see response A) or am I free to go ( if yes see response B)

A) I do not wish to make any statement or answer any questions W/ out my attorney present.

B) Thank you for your time officer. Have a nice day.
(Spoken over your shoulder as you leave the area)

Seriously. Print this out on a card and carry it with you in case you forget. This should be the extent of any contact with LE.

It's not about being a jerk, thinking bad about LEO's etc, it's simple self protection.

 

[searcher451]

This seems to be a common theme these days. Despite good law and many attempts at education, lots of folks -- common citizens and LEOs alike -- do not get it, will not get it tomorrow, and will not like it, even when it's explained to them. And the folks who choose to OC are going to have to put up with that for a long time to come, if not forever.

It's one of the reasons why those who live in states where concealed carry is allowed invariably obtain a permit and go about their business with their guns tucked away; the alternative is far too often unpleasant, even with the law on your side.

 

[Ala Dan]

Chris My Friend-

Not trying too be a wise a$$ here, but just trying to be of help-
IMHO, you should not have gotten involved. Yes its true, even
the best and most experienced LEO's have little patience with
citizens that cite the law. Please give the LEO a break here, as
I'm quite sure he knew that it was perfectly legal for your pal to
openly CCW in Virginia. You don't know what kind'a shift prior to
this call, the officer had been having. After all, we (including me)
are human; and we make mistakes. Just be thankful no harm was
done, and no one lost their life (or lives) over this matter.

Best Wishes,
Dan

 

[jhco]

i dont know why people have a prob with oc. here in the south in my small town i think if i OCed(if it was legal) people would just think that i was a local detective (they dont wear uniforms or badges here just slacks and a polo)these guys look like average joes but with a gun on their side

 

[Treo]

I don't open carry in the city but threads like this are starting to make me wonder if I should.

We can't just concede the battle to the cops. We need to stand our ground and exercise our rights W/in the law. Then once we've consolidated our hold on the ground we have, we can go after the unjust laws.

You don't know what kind'a shift prior to
this call, the officer had been having.

And with all due respect I don't care, it was the cop who chose to begin the interaction and harass chris' friend for taking an action to which he was legally entitled. And if the cop really did know that O.C. was legal in VA. then I submit that he was abusing his authority by using it to bully someone out of acting in a manner that , while he didn't like, was perfectly W/ in the bounds of the law.

There's no way in Hell I would have put that gun in the car.

Officer, are you detaining me ( if yes see response A) or am I free to go ( if yes see response B)

A) I do not wish to make any statement or answer any questions W/ out my attorney present.

B) Thank you for your time officer. Have a nice day.
(Spoken over your shoulder as you leave the area)

 

[Cosmoline]

"Family restaurant" is code for mediocre food, mediocre service, and lots of undisciplined children.

LOL Yup. And there's NO WAY I'd set foot in one unarmed. They're worse than bars.

 

[jaholder1971]

Quote:
"Family restaurant" is code for mediocre food, mediocre service, and lots of undisciplined children.
LOL Yup. And there's NO WAY I'd set foot in one unarmed. They're worse than bars.

The ones around here use prison work release and halfway house parolees for cooks in the back. The corrections vans shows up every 8 hours to pick them up and drop them off.

 

[BigBlock]

When I was in high school, I was eating lunch in my car parked just outside of school grounds. An officer came up and knocked on my window, yelling at me because my school had a "closed campus" and you aren't "allowed" to leave for lunch. I basically told him to go **** himself and that I was 18 and could eat lunch where ever I choose... (furthermore I did have permission from the school to leave the grounds)

Anyway, the funniest part, as he was walking away, probably embarrassed for making an idiot of himself he yells "well turn your music down, there's children around!" I was listening to country music, with no bad lyrics, at a moderate volume with the windows up....

 

[Deanimator]

Yes its true, even
the best and most experienced LEO's have little patience with
citizens that cite the law.

Nor do I have any patience for "Os" who either don't know, or make up the "Ls" they're supposed to be "E"ing.

If you don't know the law, don't try to enforce it.

If you disagree with the law, don't make up substitutes more to your liking.

Please give the LEO a break here, as
I'm quite sure he knew that it was perfectly legal for your pal to
openly CCW in Virginia. You don't know what kind'a shift prior to
this call, the officer had been having.

Nor do I CARE what "kind'a shift" he's been having, certainly no more than he cares what kind of day I've had at work if I am verbally abusive toward him or resist his lawful commands. As we used to say in the Army, "Sounds like a personal problem to me."

I'm not interested in the officer's day.

I'm not interested in his unsolicited opinion of what state law OUGHT to be, especially when it's imposed upon me by the threat of force, explicit or implied.

If state law says I can open carry, nobody wants to hear what he thinks of that. He needs to just shut up and do his job. And NO part of that job involves lecturing people on why HE doesn't think that they should engage in completely lawful activities.

If he can't handle that, I'm going to ask him if I'm free to leave. If he says no, I'm going to make him justify that to his superiors, in court or both. That's non-negotiable. He can have his fun in the street. I'll have mine in the courtroom... and at the Sheriff's sale.

 

[BigBlock]

If he can't handle that, I'm going to ask him if I'm free to leave. If he says no, I'm going to make him justify that to his superiors, in court or both. That's non-negotiable. He can have his fun in the street. I'll have mine in the courtroom... and at the Sheriff's sale.

I agree completely. Personally, I believe it is your DUTY as a good citizen to file an official complaint against every police officer that deserves one, the same way it is your duty to report a crime if you see one. Police officers are not allowed to have a "bad day", EVER. (unless they change the rules and let me throw a hissy fit at the officer during a traffic stop if I've had a bad day)

Think about it like this: If you ever see a cop doing something you don't like, legal or not, is it ok for you to go chew him out about it? Only if you need a free place to stay for the night while you clean the mace out of your eyes...

 

[wyocarp]

But this is one of the reasons I don't open carry. I don't have time for this kind of crap.

This is the reason I open carry! Even if I don't have time, I make the time to preserve and exercise my rights!

 

[BigBlock]

Well said. I'm wearin' my Blackhawk tonight!

 

[tpaw]

chris in va writes:

I interjected at this point, stating it was perfectly legal to OC in Virginia. He didn't like that

I think it would have been better if you said nothing. If your friend is old enough to carry a gun, he's old enough to speak for himself. Your butting in did not help. Besides, it may have also made him feel foolish in front of his GF. If it happens again, stay out of it, and let your friend be his own man.

 

[kcshooter]

But this is one of the reasons I don't open carry. I don't have time for this kind of crap.

This is the reason I open carry! Even if I don't have time, I make the time to preserve and exercise my rights!

Understandable, but I personally wouldn't have taken kindly to the harrasement. Harsh words from me would have followed the officer's lecture. More trouble than it's worth to me. (I also have a few other reasons I don't open carry.)

 

[scrat]

Well im glad to hear that he got out of it. Too many people across the country keep getting their firearms taken away and get arrested. To have the DA drop the charges later on. Then a huge mountain of red tape to get your firearm back.

 

[jonmerritt]

I hear that alot, the police do not like to be told what the law is.
Well someone needs to tell them, beacause obviously, the police don't have a clue about gun laws, and they carry at least one on there hip ALL DAY!!!

 

[jordan1948]

Am I free to go?

Gotta be carefull about that here if they think you're being a smart ass with them they'll take ya in and hold you for 24 hours just 'cause they can.
I'm not sure about the OC laws here in TX but I'll check 'em out, or if someone else knows if you could drop me a line it'd be great

 

[scrat]

oc not allowed in texas its trying to get approved though. do a search on it. lot of talk on it. dont do it though. not yet at least

 

[FieroCDSP]

In a situation where you know you're within your rights and the law backs you, get the Officer's name and badge number, and write a certified letter to the city or state's AG's office detailing the situation, asking politely that they review the pertaining laws with the officers/department in question, and ask for a response to your letter.

You may or may not get all of that, but at least you tried. Ohio has had a few clashes between departments and OC'ers. The Pro-2A groups have been pushing where it gives and we're getting results. Departments are being given info that covers the legality of OC and what to/not to do in an encounter, etc. The only way to combat the problem of lack of training or ignorance is to bring the squeaky wheel to someone's attention.

 

[wyocarp]

AMEN FieroCDSP

 

[ArizonaTRex]

Well the more people open carry-the more people would get used to it!
I went to the bank and grocery store today, OC'ing and had no problems. Only discussion I have ever had with LEO was during a traffic stop-he asked why-told him why and no problems. But thats Arizona for ya.

 

[BigBlock]

Only discussion I have ever had with LEO was during a traffic stop-he asked why-told him why and no problems.

Any time a cop asks you why you have a gun, ask him the same question.

 

[Exmasonite]

"Family restaurant" is code for mediocre food, mediocre service, and lots of undisciplined children.

All the more reason to carry the OC, IMO.

That being said, i'd be careful to interject if CC'ing with cops on edge. do you have to inform if CCing in your state?

 

[basicblur]

More open carry situations in VA

VCDL member gets $10K from Norfolk for harassment
Norfolk had to cough up $10,000 because of the Norfolk PD harassing gun owner Danladi Moore for openly carrying. Between Danladi and Chet (next article below), looks like Norfolk has money to burn on harassment and false arrests.
http://tinyurl.com/57nu2u [PDF]

VCDL member's suit against Norfolk moves forward on privacy violations

Thanks to Alan Rose for the link:

Alan notes: "Referencing the headline, exactly what gun law did the judge say was 'OK'? Some editor is playing fast and loose with the facts. As the article states, the charge was dropped and the city knew they had an invalid ordinance. Exactly opposite of the headline!"

That's what happens when a paper's editor is biased.

Actually, the *federal* judge simply said that as far as the FEDERAL CONSTITUTION is concerned, the preempted Norfolk ordinance is not unconstitutional. Under Virginia law, however, that ordinance is not legal, of course.
http://tinyurl.com/3j5kf3

HamptonRoads.com
Judge: Norfolk gun law OK, but not request for private info
NORFOLK

The arrest of a man for openly carrying a gun at a Norfolk festival did not violate the U.S. Constitution but the police officer who asked for the man's Social Security number might have violated his civil rights, a federal judge ruled this week.

Chester "Chet" Szymecki Jr. of Yorktown sued the city after his arrest in June 2007 on a charge of violating a city ordinance prohibiting firearms at Harborfest, held annually at Town Point Park.

Szymecki, a gun rights advocate, has challenged handgun bans in the past. During his arrest, Szymecki claims police pushed him and that when he complained that the handcuffs were on too tight, an officer made them tighter.

During his arrest and later, when he was released from custody, police asked him for his Social Security number. He initially balked, but gave it to the officers to avoid being detained longer, he says in his suit.

The charge was later thrown out after city officials learned that it violated a state law that prohibits localities from regulating firearms.

Szymecki sued in federal court claiming multiple constitutional violations, including the Second Amendment's right to keep and bear arms and the Fourth Amendment prohibition against unlawful searches
and seizures.

U.S. District Judge Henry Coke Morgan Jr. ruled Thursday that Szymecki cannot sue claiming constitutional violations under state or local law. Morgan ruled earlier this year that the city did not violate the Second Amendment for the same reason.

"It is well settled law in this circuit that the Second Amendment does not apply to the states," Morgan wrote in dismissing Szymecki's constitutional claims. "Because the Second Amendment does not apply to the states, neither a state law nor a local ordinance can run afoul of
any right guaranteed by the Second Amendment."

However, Morgan ruled that the police demand for Szymecki's Social Security number - if the allegation is true - would have violated the federal Privacy Act.

Morgan will allow the case to go to trial on that issue alone. The trial has been set for Dec. 16.

Tim McGlone, (757) 446-2343, [email protected]

 

[ProficientRifleman]

Now now... the Cops are always right.

Just submit and comply and everything should be fine.