From the BBC: Police seek EU gun laws rethink

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jfh

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Here's the story--

Police are calling for sweeping changes to European gun laws.

The Greater Manchester force says half of the weapons its officers have seized this year can be bought easily over the counter, and without a licence in many countries.

The BBC's Ten O'Clock News went undercover in Prague to find out how easy it is to obtain a weapon.


We went to the Czech capital to find out if we could buy a gun and found it shockingly easy.

We sent an undercover reporter, posing as a London businessman, to make contact with illegal gun dealers in the organised crime underworld.

Within three days, two separate gangs had offered him up to eight handguns, at about £550 each.

At that point, unwilling to break Czech law, we pulled out.


But we found that you don't have to break the law to buy a weapon that can quickly be made lethal.

We went to a high street gun shop.

Without a licence, and without proof of identity, you can buy a replica pistol, designed to fire blanks or gas pellets.

In a standard engineering workshop these can be converted to fire real bullets.


Possession of these weapons - even unconverted - can get you five years in prison in Britain.

In the Czech Republic you can buy them over the counter. They can then be mailed back to the UK, or carried by hand across the Channel by ferry.

We spoke to a member of one criminal gang who told us he had been carrying a gun since he was 18. He also sold guns.



Gun related deaths in England and Wales neared 60 in 2006-07

He said guns had become an essential accessory.

If other gangs in your neighbourhood have guns, he said, then they have to know that you are also carrying a weapon.

It had, he said, become easy to buy a weapon.

"It's common stuff," he said. "Everyone's got guns."


Young kids have guns as a fashion statement, he added.

"Like everyone wants a phone, everyone wants a gun."

He said it was for protection.

"If you're in a gang and you see members of other gangs then obviously you need it - before they shoot you, you have to shoot them."

I asked him how easy it was to buy a gun.

"It's like walking into a shop and asking for a chocolate bar," he said.

Assassination kit

This year, Greater Manchester Police have seized more than 400 illegal weapons.

Half of them are of the type we bought legally in Prague and returned to the shop - replicas that are then converted.


"You go in, you hand over your money, you walk out with one of these or two of these " Det Insp John Lyons Greater Manchester Police

Det Insp John Lyons showed me an example of a gun, seized from the streets, that had been converted from a replica.

It had been recovered along with a silencer. An assassination kit, DI Lyons called it.

Greater Manchester Police say they now want Europe-wide legislation to regulate the supply and sale of replica guns. DI Lyons said replica guns were on sale lawfully in the Czech Republic, Germany and other countries without any regulation at all.

"You go in, you hand over your money, you walk out with one of these or two of these, or as many as you can afford to buy," he said.

"You don't need a licence. You don't need to prove who you are so we'd like to see them banned.

"But we recognise that that is probably an unobtainable objective at the moment, so what we want to see is this piece of legislation including regulations around these convertible weapons as a start.

"That will inevitably have a positive impact on the number of weapons that we find on the streets of the UK."


A Home Office spokesman said the sort of "readily convertible" replicas featured in the report were already prohibited in the UK.

"We have been working with the European Commission to amend the definition of firearms in the European Weapons Directive to ensure that stricter controls in other Member States will apply," he said.


"It is an offence to convert an imitation into a firearm and anybody in possession of a prohibited firearm faces a minimum sentence of 5 years and a maximum of 10 years.

"ACPO has a control strategy in place which encompasses the reduction in the supply of firearms both into and within UK, through working in partnership with agencies such as SOCA and HMRC, who have a major role to play in identifying and controlling vulnerable points of entry."


and here's the link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7083629.stm

If you go to the link, you can find links to other stories on the BBC's take on "Gun Culture"--there are several down the right side.

Jim H.
 
*snicker* Anyone else find this familiar to the Chicago, New York or DC media.:D

So, they got on a plane, flew to the Czech Republic, set up an illegal gun buy and they are shocked that you can buy illegal guns in another nation? Guess what, old boy, run like the clappers over to Gunchester and you can to the very same thing.

It's an island. The government controls the entry points into the country (unike ours) and bans handguns. The number of murders with handguns is increasing. The solution: ban non-guns.:D
 
Sounds just like anti-gun states in the U.S. blaming other states for their idiotic people control measures. Anyone remember that one with NYC blaming Virginia gun dealers for their violence?

If you want to convert a replica firearm you might as well make a zip gun, it's equally 'easy' and equally dangerous.

And their point about it being easy to buy an illegal firearm -- they don't think it's like that in the UK as well seeing as violent crime has gone up ever since they outlawed guns?

I so hate this continent. Every day I wake up to more intellectual disease and collectivism. It seems the only option is to put up with it or jump off a cliff. :banghead:

El Tejon -- they have already banned non-guns. Did you know that in the UK, you need a license to own airsoft weapons? :scrutiny:
 
You know there seems to be quite a lot of money to made in this gun running business old chap what say we watch some American movies and see how its done
 
You don't have to go to the Czech Republic to buy (non)guns (il)legally in the EU, a UK housing project will do just fine.
 
So lets see if I understand this...

They attempt to commit an illegal act by violating the law, they fin dout that the law itself does not prevent them from breaking the law and now they think that there ought ot be more laws against breaking the laws that are already making those actions illegal.
?????
 
i hope norway`s not getting in on this too....that would make me, majorly pissed....

think i need to start looking around after a party thats "pro gun" in norway...but sadly i dont think there is such a thing
 
How does England believe they will force thier laws on everyone else? Do we see a return of the British Empire? The Czech Republic was under the Soviet thumb for how long - do you think they will like the idea of the Queen telling them how to live? Airstrip One is so screwed up - howinthehell did they ever form an Empire?
 
We formed an Empire because we had a large well trained army and alot of firepower,and genrally invaded countries that lacked both.
Gun crime in the Uk is low compared to crime in general,to be fair crime is low,it is unfortunate but bad stories make headlines...good stories,well they are considered un newsworthy.
The UK is not just London and Manchester,out of the cities is where the Uk starts...
 
I hear that even the SWISS are close to revising their centuries old system of a Battle Rifle over every hearth to come into line with the EU or worse with the UK.

Looks like the only free place outside US borders is going to be Israel where citizen CCW is encouraged and ardently practiced. I used to have an article from the anti gun Miami Herald on a robbery that took place at an outdoor cafe in Tel Aviv (IIRC this was mid 1987). Some punks, not terrorists ran into this outdoor cafe waving handguns and demanding money. Whereupon about a dozen diners stood, drew and nailed the two, cleanly, before returning to finish their meals while waiting for the clean up crew and report takers to arrive. There were no missed shoots and no over penetrations. The bodies were riddled. The cops called it a "good" shoot. Well I should say so! The Herald seemed to be whining but what else is new?
 
Come on now chaps,let's not forget it is not England but the United Kingdom.
England,Wales,Scotland and Northern Ireland.
Spare a thought for us who own firearms and shoot on a weekly basis,not only are we seen as a nuisance by our government,but also have to suffer abuse from the general public who view us as murdering savages...
 
So buying a black market gun in east Europe is what the BBC calls "over the counter." I'm sure more laws are the answer. The Brits will impose their draconian laws on the rest of the EU, and then the EU will still be getting firearms from the black market machine shops. So they'll blame American gun culture and press to stop exports to American civilians. Eventually the whole world will be under the UK gun ban and to stop people from making more firearms the governments will need to outlaw machine shops.

I wonder when these idiots will realize they're insane?
 
The old "illegal gun" problem raises its ugly head once again, but now at last there's a solution to this problem, and I am relieved. The BBC has identified the solution to the ongoing problem of violent crime in its country and--although it does seem to realize it yet--in a great many other countries too.

Mexico recently explained that all violent crime in that country is caused by illegal guns coming from the United States, and Canada recently said that its violent crime also is the result of illegal guns from the U.S.

But a lot of U.S. mayors have demonstrated why it's impossible. Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York City has explained that all violent crime in that city is caused by illegal guns that come from other cities. Mayors of other cities agree that all violent crimes in their cities come from still other cities.

The Mayor of Washington, D.C., for example, can truthfully say that his city's dreadful violent crime problem--which makes it more than twice as violent as any entire state in the United States of America--can't be traced to native guns. It's almost impossible for a law abiding citizen to have a handgun there and all long guns in D.C. are disassembled so they can't be used until even there lawful owners find all the parts and put them back together. So violent crime in D.C. is again the fault of some other city. Its responses in Heller v DC are based on that premise.

Although the U.S. mayors don't yet realize it, their independent findings demonstrate an obvious logical conclusion. If all violent crime in every U.S. city is caused by illegal guns coming in from some other city, but no other city is the source of those guns, it must be obvious that no city in the U.S. is responsible for either its own violent crimes or for the violent crimes in any other city or country in North America or South America.

So the United States is not the problem and couldn't possibly be. After all, no mayor has said "My city is responsible for all violent crime, not only in my city but also throughout the U.S., Mexico, and Canada." The only possible exception is Mayor C. Ray Nagin of New Orleans who ordered the confiscation of all guns from law abiding citizens during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. His actions seem to acknowledge that it was New Orleans which was supplying the illegal guns that caused violent crimes here, there, and everywhere else. But that was in April of 2005 and little New Orleans can't possibly be the source of enough illegal guns to fuel the crime in every other city in two continents. Besides, violent crime in New Orleans has actually escalated since Mayor Nagin had the guns of honest citizens confiscated more than two years ago. New Orleans therefore is another victim of whatever other city is causing the problem.

England can't possibly be responsible for violent crimes in its own country because, as we all know, it's a model of efficient gun control and has been so for many years. Its violent crime problem obviously is caused by some city in another country. Thanks to the U.S. mayors and the Canadian and Mexican governments we've already eliminated all of North and South America as the location of that evil city.

Thanks to the BBC we no longer need play "Where in the world is Carmen Santiago?" or "Where's Waldo?" Those enterprising reporters have determined that Prague, Czechoslavakia, is the city everyone else has been trying to find. Prague must be the source of the illegal guns that have been causing violent crimes in England, the U.S., Canada, and Mexico.

There is an apparent flaw in that logic. The city of Prague, Czechoslavakia, itself has a low rate of violent crimes and even boasts of its safety:

Prague is a safe and enjoyable city with very little violent crime. Few words on the helpful precautions to make your trip more pleasant.

Compared to many Western cities, Prague is relatively safe. The rate of violent crime is low and most areas of Prague are safe to walk around even after dark. The main criminal problem is petty pilfering (pickpockets) from cars, hotels, and pockets. If you use common sense and follow your intuition, you should be able to stay out of harm's way.

Don't lose heart, though. With so many guns available to anyone who wants them, a criminal would have to be insane to attempt a violent crime in Prague. They can never know which of their potential victims has the means to resist. So the sane criminals follow the dictates of sane thinking: the non violent ones limit themselves to non violent crimes (such as picking pockets and other pilfering) while in Prague. The violent criminals, however, must be going to England, Canada, Mexico, New York City, Boston, Philadelphia, New Orleans, D.C., and all other places that are not responsible for their own violent crimes and don't allow their citizens the same easy access to guns that Prague allows.

The solution to all of the world's violent crime problem is now obvious. If Prague, Czechoslovakia, can be persuaded to adopt strict gun control as practiced in England and those other places, its violent criminals would stay home where they belong and restrict their activities to murdering Czechoslovakians, as is only right and proper. Civilized countries know that that's the decent thing to do: impose strict gun control laws so that domestic criminals stay home and attack or kill citizens of their own country instead of causing problems in other countries.

It's also the Green thing to do. Violent criminals that practice their trade at home do not waste fuel by travelling to other countries.

The BBC should take a well earned bow for its achievement. Let's write off the NRA and send our money to the BBC instead.
 
So lets see if I understand this...

They attempt to commit an illegal act by violating the law, they fin dout that the law itself does not prevent them from breaking the law and now they think that there ought ot be more laws against breaking the laws that are already making those actions illegal.
?????

That makes my head hurt.

Mark.
 
Without a licence, and without proof of identity, you can buy a replica pistol, designed to fire blanks or gas pellets.

In a standard engineering workshop these can be converted to fire real bullets.

Are they talking about airsoft guns and starter pistols?:scrutiny:
 
I look forward to the day someone decide to ban irresponsibility and stupidity, instead of banning things that dosent really matter. I also quite like how the journalist indirectly states that no one but criminals are interested in guns, and that every gun or gun shaped object is eeeeevil. By the gods, why must europeans be a bunch of clueless hippies and soccer moms >.<
 
So lets see if I understand this...

They attempt to commit an illegal act by violating the law, they fin dout that the law itself does not prevent them from breaking the law and now they think that there ought ot be more laws against breaking the laws that are already making those actions illegal.
?????

No... No... You are applying logic to the failed theory of gun control. Eliminate all the logic and it will begin to almost make sense.
 
If they make all things illegal, than they can arrest us all... Once we are all safely tucked in jail, we certainly can't perpetrate any violent acts on one another... :scrutiny:

Please save us from ourselves Big Brother!!
 
Hippies soccer moms...let's not tar all with the same brush.Let us state the obvious it is not the gun that is the problem,it is the person behind it.Point of order:Soccer is American,Football is English....
 
A writer for the Orlando (Florida) Sentinel newspaper said it best in a column he wrote, in part......"the primary target of gun-control laws would be the people who shoot them at ranges, then lovingly oil and ogle them before safely locking them up."

It doesn't matter which state you live in, which country you call home, or which continent you live upon....those words still ring true.

He also wrote....."gun-control laws work as well as crack cocaine-control laws."

Wise man.
 
hmmm... Purchasing guns is illegal, but criminals break the laws that say it's illegal to purchase an illegal gun, so we need more laws to make the illegal purchase of an illegal gun even more illegal because then maybe the criminals won't break those laws, because it would be illegal illegal illegal...

Also, keep in mind that more new laws are needed because apparently criminals will illegally convert a legally purchased not firearm into an illegal firearm, not caring that they committed an illegal act. Therefore, it is necessary to make the sale of all non-firearm, non-restricted items that may be illegally converted into illegal firearms (anything metal, plastic, composite or ceramic) an illegal act so that a criminal would have to illegally purchase a non firearm then illegally convert it into an illegal firearm before committing an illegal act with their illegally purchased, now illegal firearm.

Big Brother is watching you and we've always been at war with Eastasia.

PS: Illegal.
 
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