FRONT SIGHT handgun training

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Front Sight is well known, but is also going through major financial issues right now. This would be one that you want to stay away from.
 
So the whole free hand gun and $3k worth of gear thing is BS, huh. Is the training what Piazza (CEO) says it is?
 
From what I've read, the training is good. I just wouldn't put money into an organization that may go belly up at any moment. Not to mention that Mr. Piazza seems not to be the most forthright or honest guy around.

Just for the record, I have no personal experience with Front Sight, good or bad. In my personal opinion, their advertising does not instill confidence that they are completely above board. As the old saw goes: If it sounds too good to be true...

Here's a recent article about Front Sight going into receivership:
http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2009/May-15-Fri-2009/news/28773367.html


May 15, 2009

BUSINESS AS USUAL?
Front Sight assets seized​

By GINA B. GOOD
PVT

At 11 a.m. Monday, Front Sight Firearms Training Institute and its president, Ignatius Piazza, went into receivership.

All financial transactions involving the firearms training facility -- from accepting payment for classes to paying staff and vendors -- must take place through a court-appointed administrator.

The facility and all assets have been seized by the court, down to the hundreds of firearms included as part of new members' benefits.

However, despite the ruling, this weekend at Front Sight everything was "business as usual," according to Operations Manager Rick Morello.

He said he knew nothing about the legal proceedings. "We have a big weekend coming up with a full schedule of classes," Morello said. "Business is booming."

The ruling, handed down by U.S. District Judge James Ware in San Jose, Calif., had its beginning in November 2005 when Stacy James, Bill Haag and Michael Schriber filed a class action suit against Piazza on behalf of themselves and other qualified Front Sight members.

The suit mentions "violations of RICO, unfair advertising and competition, Nevada Sale of Subdivided Land Act, fraudulent conveyances, Consumer Legal Remedies Act, Interstate Land Sales Full Disclosure Act, breach of contract and fraud," all based on Piazza's sale of lifetime memberships.

RICO is the acronym for the federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, originally used to target the Mafia and similar organizations.

The three men allege the price of the memberships they and the members of the class purchased were artificially inflated as a result of misrepresentations and non-disclosures.

On October 15, 2007, a settlement was reached and Ware dismissed the suit with the stipulation Front Sight live up to the negotiated terms. A settlement fund of $8,050,000 secured by a lien on Front Sight's assets would let the class foreclose if the fund was not fully funded by October 15, 2008.

Piazza was ordered to put 10 percent of Front Sight's monthly gross revenues into the settlement fund and provide financial documentation showing he was meeting his obligation. He complied, although according to the plaintiff's court filings, the payments were not timely, which comes as no surprise to former employees and suppliers in Pahrump.

The settlement also said Piazza had to allow members who were part of the suit to use their Front Sight memberships until the settlement fund was fully paid. Further, he was ordered by the court not to retaliate or make derogatory remarks against James, Haag and Schriber.

According to C. Keith Greer, attorney for the class, Piazza violated all the agreed upon terms.

At the end of the prescribed year, the fund was short by more than $5.4 million.

The day after the fund came up short, Piazza send a letter to everyone involved in the suit, saying Front Sight was no longer obligated to make additional monthly payments because the class action had forced the first mortgage holder on the property to foreclose.

"This is a lie as no one foreclosed on the property on that day or any day since," said Greer.

Piazza's letter also said Front Sight offered to increase its monthly contribution to the settlement fund from 10 to 20 percent.

Greer said bluntly, "That was also a lie."

But Piazza didn't stop there. He told class members they were "forever banned from Front Sight," which was another violation of the terms.

The same day Piazza sent a letter to non-class members, declaring:

"After they attended over 200 Front Sight Courses and pocketed $830,000 out of the first million dollars I paid timely into the Class Action Settlement Fund, the three malcontents and their ambulance-chasing attorney tried to kill Front Sight and terminate your membership by forcing us into foreclosure. So I cut them (and their followers) off at the knees!

"In this letter I reveal all the gory details and show you how the new Front Sight turned the tables on these back-stabbing saboteurs."

According to Greer, "Defendant Piazza also boasts that, in violation of the court order against encumbering the property, he created Front Sight Management II and signed a 99-year lease with the old Front Sight entity, leasing the land, water rights, entitlements, equipment, weapons, licenses, trademarks, copyrights, intellectual property, Internet sites, accounts, etc. Every asset the old Front Sight had is now leased by the new Front Sight entity."

Greer said it is clear Front Sight "violated every aspect of the court order and settlement agreement."

He added that Piazza did so "notoriously" and "in a manner that flaunts disrespect for the law and the judicial system."

Piazza's gorilla marketing technique of sending frequent e-mails with special price offers to prospective members give Greer and his clients easy access to information. They used Piazza's own words as evidence to show the court Piazza and Front Sight have the money to satisfy the settlement obligation.

On December 30, 2008, Piazza e-mailed members saying Front Sight had doubled in students, members and net worth each year for 12 years. He said, "While others are laying off people, we are hiring." He also said Front Sight had been offered a $25 million letter of credit.

Taking Piazza at his printed word, in March, the class asked to have Piazza appear in court with financial documentation Piazza agreed to supply in the settlement agreement.

In fact, Greer asked Piazza to live up to all the stipulations in the settlement, including paying the claims administrator and stopping interference with the membership rights of class members.

Greer also asked the court to order Piazza to stop publishing disparaging remarks about class members.

Ware granted the request, setting the hearing date for date for March 23.

Piazza did not appear, nor did he send any representative to appear on Front Sight's behalf. He did, however, fire his attorney at the last minute, which the judge called an "eleventh-hour dismissal" when he issued an order for Piazza to show cause why he should not be held in contempt of court and subject to sanctions for failing to appear.

That hearing to show cause was held Monday, resulting in Ware's decision that Front Sight had defaulted on its agreement with the class. All assets belonging to Front Sight and Piazza were seized by the court.

An administrator was appointed to run the organization.
 
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I know some people who have gone there, and it seems that the training is good. But I don't think I'd count on goodies. The situation just seems too changeable. Go to Gunsite instead. You'll get excellent training, and Prescott, Arizona is a much nicer place to be than Pahrump, Nevada.
 
I did go to Frontsight back in May. I had a great time and learned a lot. It was a busy week with almost five hundred students. We were all separated into groups of about 30 people and put on separate ranges with 3-5 instructors on each range. It was good training, they do train everyone from rank beginners to professionals who carry a gun for a living and have to tailor the training accordingly. The instructors were very professional and the facility was well organized, but in the middle of nowhere. I would recommend Frontsight and have suggested it to several of my friends. I am a NRA law enforcement firearms instructor and have been to training at many other places as well. My opinion is that the more training I can do, the better I will perform when it counts. I also enjoy learning from many different people and methodologies.
The best part was that I wasn't at work and was on the range shooting. I shot about a thousand rounds over the 5 days of training.
Just my .02
 
I know of three men who attended Front Sight and LOVED it.
If you'd like, I will provide you with these references.
 
I did go to Frontsight back in May. I had a great time and learned a lot. It was a busy week with almost five hundred students. We were all separated into groups of about 30 people and put on separate ranges with 3-5 instructors on each range. It was good training, they do train everyone from rank beginners to professionals who carry a gun for a living and have to tailor the training accordingly. The instructors were very professional and the facility was well organized, but in the middle of nowhere. I would recommend Frontsight and have suggested it to several of my friends. I am a NRA law enforcement firearms instructor and have been to training at many other places as well. My opinion is that the more training I can do, the better I will perform when it counts. I also enjoy learning from many different people and methodologies.
The best part was that I wasn't at work and was on the range shooting. I shot about a thousand rounds over the 5 days of training.
Just my .02

ryanfellows,
welcome to thr. have you trained any where else to compare to the a Front site courses, if so could you list them and possible compare the 2 or 3 etc.
 
Has anyone ever heard of Front Sight Firearms Training Institute? I happened to stumble across this "too good to be true" site. Just wondering if anyone's ever heard of this guy.

http://www.frontsight.com

The free stuff is for real, the training is for real, Front Sight is for real.

Please note that the vast vast vast majority of the "detracting" remarks will come from people that have -never- been there.

Also not that you'll see very FEW detracting remarks from people who -have- actually been there.

You may draw your own conclusions.

(and yes, I have been there, and would do it all over again)
 
POSSUM...
I trained in the military, several NRA sponsored courses and HaganaH israeli combat shooting courses. As I stated, the main difference with Frontsight is that they have to train every level together. And the catch is that you cannot take the advanced courses until you have successfully completed the prerequisite course first. Unless you attend a strictly advanced course, you are lumped together with police, military and maybe housewives who have never even held a gun before. They are definitely into their own style. They want you to shoot from the weaver even if you have been shooting all your life from the isosceles. And they do for instance clear malfunctions slightly different than law enforcement and combat load shotguns different. But from my perspective, I like to learn different ways and pick and choose what works best for me personally.
I did like the training that Frontsight provided and would go back to take more courses from them. I would do more research and find one of the many certificates available on the internet rather than buy one at full price from their website.
One thing that I did not say in my first post is that I did sign up for the free gun deal offered. I was able to train with the new gun while at Frontsight and then through a FFL in NM I received my gun about 10 days after returning from Nevada. I see many people chatting about not receiving their gear or doubting they will receive it, but I got my gear including the holster, belt, flashlight magazine holder, books and gun right away.
Hope that helps!
 
There is a rampent hatred of Front Site on the web. As said mostly from folks who have never been there.
IF I lived a thousand miles closer I would be a member. I would go for the guns/gear option without worry. I would think twice/three times before going "first family" there. then again if your wife would take only a couple courses you could get (your investment quickly)
 
Front Sight....

Amway, now with Guns!

The training may be good, but the Piazza guy is like a used car salesman. And for that reason alone, I would not support them with my coins.

There is other training out there.
 
Speculation

I find that these Front Sight threads tend to follow a predictable pattern.

Someone inquires "are they any good" or, alternatively "is their offer for real."

Several posters chime in with "what I've heard" and what they've read elsewhere on the Intarwebs. Most of this material is negative.

A few posters with actual experience post their personal -- first hand -- findings. For some reason, the people who have been there seem to uniformly have favorable reports.

This is then followed by a little more discussion, some positive, some negative, some uncertain.

Probability approaches 1.0 that someone will, sooner or later, make with the snark snapper, with name-calling, direct or implied, assumptions of "guilt by association," and assertions of "why I will never go there."

Depending on how long the thread stays open, considerable heat is generated and, eventually, somebody like me has to come along and lock the thread.

So,
  • Question
  • Speculation
  • Actual Experience
  • Discussion/Speculation
  • Argument
  • Moderator Intervention.

In keeping with this tradition, and in the interest of keeping the "argument" portion to a minimum, I'm going to skip to the last part of this sequence.

Oh, and just for the record, I am inclined to give more weight to the words of those who have been there. If I want speculation, all I have to do is turn on the news.

 
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