Front Sight ALASKA?!

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LRH, "the most ethical man on the planet"

You would think an upscale training facility would have a large advertising presence to recruit patrons...

Anything that orbits the LR Hubbard cult of scientology deserves a very close inspection

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1260189#post1260189

http://www.light-of-reason.blogspot.com/2002_11_03_light-of-reason_archive.html#84128115

http://discus.xenu.net/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?file=/1510/2963.html

http://www.xenu.net/
 
I thought this was pretty interesting, from the Clarion article:

Front Sight targets what it calls the "unconsciously incompetent" weapon owners, according to Nikiski facility manager Brad Ackman.

"The UI is incompetent but does not know that he or she is incompetent because he has had no training or poor training," Ackman said.
 
I could care less if it's run by the church of the bouncing monkey. But the apparent strong-arming of Glocktalk is highly disturbing. I don't mind being trained by some odd religion, but I do mind getting slapped with a strike suit if I say something bad about "Battlefield Earth."
 
But the apparent strong-arming of Glocktalk is highly disturbing.

Wow, I will be the first to admit, I didn't even know about all this friction, lawsuits, etc. I just spent an hour reading all those websites Harry Tuttle posted.

I've made my thoughts on Frontsight quite clear: I wouldn't train there and I never have. I have been slammed, by several people, for saying that. For not keeping an "open mind." Well, I've been informed by several people in this industry, about the problems at Frontsight. Now, having read these websites, my mind is TOTALLY made up. I wouldn't train at that place if you paid me to go there.

I have heard nothing good about Frontsight. All I have read is negative and appears to be some sort of "cult" establishment. A sales pitch to buy homes, etc. I go to train, not to listen to someone sell me a house. I own two homes already; can't afford a third.

I am a police officer and as such, I hold to the old notion of morals and ethics. I don't care if Frontsight is the greatest training facility in the world. The morals/ethics of the owner are HIGHLY questionable. And for that reason, and that reason alone, I wouldn't train there. No matter who and/or what, says what...

And if they want to sue me too, they can go right ahead.

Thin The Herd
 
Police Officers look at facts, not rumors

Tetleyb
As I understand a police officer is only interested in facts, not rumor. You appear to be a intelligent person. So use the skill you have been given, investigate by going to Front Sight or talking to Dr Piazza. He has a 800 number on the web site.
You would do this if he had information for a case you were working on. Look at this website: http://www.ignatiuspiazza.com/. Does this look like the actions of an unethical or criminal person? How much have you or any other person on this BBS given this year?
Most of what we read on any BBS is opinion and we all have the right in this country to have and express an opinion. But, an opinion may or may not be fact.
Our beloved 2nd amendment is proceeded by the 1st amendment. Religion, speech, the free press and assembly, then the right to keep and bear arms.

Remember condemnation without invesgation is stupidity
 
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tetleyb,

Front Sight Rocks! They train a HUGE amount of people every year to safely handle all kinds of different firearms. They also do a lot for our RKBA.

Now I guess you can't say you've "heard nothing good" about it.

Dave Williams
 
Most of what we read on any BBS is opinion

Who said I received my information from a BBS??? I receive my information from first hand, RELIABLE sources. That would be the persons who have been to FrontSight and have trained there. It also comes from the most knowledgeable firearms instructors in the world.

Now, rumor and innuedo? Are you denying the fact the man has sued people, because they have made disparging comments about him and his training site? Are you denying that they have promised to build a mult million dollar training site, and the only thing there now for shelter is tents and overhanging? Are you denying they try and sell you houses and other BS during the training? Are you denying their prices are OUTRAGEOUS??? Are you denying the owner is chiropractor and "self proclaimed" firearms expert, because of some training???

In fact, after a firearm course at Front Sight, you will have gun skills that surpass 98% of the people that carry a gun for a living!

Are you denying this quote is on their website and is a bunch BS??? How can someone claim something like this? Your trying to tell me, after a two day class, someone is going to have more training the 98% of the people who carry guns for a living? What an ignorant, arrogant, pompous statement to make.

These are the things which make me say the things I do. And, unless your a police officer, don't assume what police officers use to make judgements. My work and my personal business are just that, two different things.

Thin The Herd
 
"Your trying to tell me, after a two day class, someone is going to have more training the 98% of the people who carry guns for a living?"

I would tell you that without reservation (but the classes are actually four days).
 
Yoy dont have to agree with the sales talk, But the training is good for a beginning student. Would recommend it to anyone starting out.

Roy
 
tetleyb, it says more "gun skills," not "more training."

My wife is a police officer. I am not. I could outshoot her any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Some of that has to do with Front Sight. Most has to do with my attitude toward training and skills maintenance.

/just spouting off :D
 
tetleyb,

>>>>"Are you denying that they have promised to build a mult million dollar training site, and the only thing there now for shelter is tents and overhanging?"<<<<

You are incorrect here. Maybe you need to go out there for yourself and stop relying on " first hand, RELIABLE sources" and "the most knowledgeable firearms instructors in the world" which appear to be anything but RELIABLE and knowledgeable. Who are these sources of yours????? I have actually been out there to train, and I can assure you that you are incorrect, the huge classroom facility is built and operational. The numerous range facilities are also impressive.

>>>>"Are you denying their prices are OUTRAGEOUS???"<<<<

I met a member while I was training there who has recieved such an outrageous return on his membership $$$ outlay I couldn't believe it. He now trains for free for life there. Sounds pretty "OUTRAGEOUS" to me.

>>>>Are you denying the owner is chiropractor and "self proclaimed" firearms expert, because of some training??? <<<<

I guess he was a chiropractor. He also has E Tickets from Gunsite in a bunch of courses and was the second ASAA "Combat Master". That's not "self proclaimed", that's a firearms training school bestowing Expert, and Master ratings on a student.

You basically are going by what you heard from unreliable sources. Maybe you should stop commenting since you don't have reliable information.

Dave Williams
 
"Are you denying that they have promised to build a mult million dollar training site, and the only thing there now for shelter is tents and overhanging?"
I would say that just buying the property might have been a multi-million dollar transaction. I wouldn't be surprised if the road (that Frontsight payed for) leading to the training facility might have been a million dollar transaction. I am sure that the work that has been done on the facility to date was a multi-million dollar transaction.
As for the buildings, you are wrong there. The last time I was there, several buildings of conventional construction were there. When I was last there (almost a year ago), they wern't actually using the buildings yet. I don't remember why now, but appearently the buildings are now open and operational.
"Are you denying they try and sell you houses and other BS during the training? "
Yes. As far as I know, Frontsight does not sell houses. I know for a fact that they never tried to sell me a house. What they do try to sell you is more training and what I will refer to as training packages. If you buy the most expensive membership, the price includes a lot in their proposed community, but does not include a house. The house is something you have to contract for with a contractor. You might call the training packages they offer, memberships or whatever. They call them First Family memberships. They are, to me, a good deal and this ties in with your next question about the prices being OUTRAGEOUS. No, I don't think the prices are outrageous. If you go there to train and pay for each class individually, they prices are similar to other major training facilities. If you buy a First Family membership they are probably less. If you bought a First Family membership early on, they are way less. I bought mine sort of, in the middle. And I already, easily got my money back. I paid less for the First Family membership than I would have paid for the four classes I have taken there if I had paid the regular price. I also paid way less for my First Family membership than I did for the four classes I took at Gunsite.
"Are you denying the owner is chiropractor and "self proclaimed" firearms expert, because of some training??? "
I never heard the word "expert" used. I have heard the term "combat master" used. This is a title bestowed by Chuck Taylor and is the result of shooting a course of fire within his time and scoring limits. What this has to do with combat, I have no idea. But, being able to shoot that course of fire is very impressive to me. If I was able to do it, I would brag about it too.
 
You basically are going by what you heard from unreliable sources. Maybe you should stop commenting since you don't have reliable information.

Yeah, you just prove my point even more, since you didn't address everything I said in my post. Your basically a "Frontsight" groupie, who can see no wrong in what they do.

I, on the other hand, have a Bronze Start with Combat "V," a Purple Heart, and have been involved in three officer involved shootings as a police officer. Two of which have resulted in deaths.

I have 3500 hours of training, with every major firearms instructor in the world, I am the lead firearms instructor for a 250 person police department and, I testify as an expert in federal and state court, for use force regarding firearms.

Can you or Mr Piazza match me? I don't think so. I don't think you or he would walk into a court of law with me and match credentials. So, I'll tell you what. You keep going to your "cult" and keep talking what a great game they are.

I'll keep bashing them and telling the truth. If you don't like what I have to say, then too bad, so sad; don't read what I have to say. However, as I said, the foremost firearms instructors in the country, have NOTHING to say good about the place. Neither do I...

Thin The Herd
 
"Yeah, you just prove my point even more, since you didn't address everything I said in my post. Your basically a "Frontsight" groupie, who can see no wrong in what they do.

I, on the other hand, have a Bronze Start with Combat "V," a Purple Heart, and have been involved in three officer involved shootings as a police officer. Two of which have resulted in deaths.

I have 3500 hours of training, with every major firearms instructor in the world, I am the lead firearms instructor for a 250 person police department and, I testify as an expert in federal and state court, for use force regarding firearms.

Can you or Mr Piazza match me? I don't think so. I don't think you or he would walk into a court of law with me and match credentials. So, I'll tell you what. You keep going to your "cult" and keep talking what a great game they are.

I'll keep bashing them and telling the truth. If you don't like what I have to say, then too bad, so sad; don't read what I have to say. However, as I said, the foremost firearms instructors in the country, have NOTHING to say good about the place. Neither do I..."



Ya know what dude, you have never proven your credentials anywhere on any of these forums. You claim this you claim that all behind a screen name that doesnt mean squat. I could claim the same thing you do. You call him a self proclaimed expert. He was proclaimed a combat master by somebody else entirely. I would put my money on Piazza way before you.
 
Go to a public range and you notice at least half of the shooters often more are UI. When I see people doing stuff that is crazy wrong, I just wish I was rich enough to hand people front sight certs and be like, "hey you, take a four day pistol class."

atek3
 
Let's get to what's important here

Will Front Sight Alaska finally address the issue of "What handgun is best to use against Polar Bears?" :D :p

----------------

444,

Of course there are dogs in Heaven. After all, if there were no dogs, how could it be Heaven? ;)
 
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