Fosbery
Member
So what's the least you would expect to pay for a full-auto and what sort of guns are cheapest?
Full autos in the US + Home Made Sten
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Cromlech
Member
To be perfectly honest, I can think of better ways to blow $3k on firearms, than on a Mac 11. 
Cromlech
Member
$225? Well, that's a much more reasonable price.
Good thing 9mm isn't too pricey.
Good thing 9mm isn't too pricey.
saltydog
Member
It's not a cheap shot, its the truth. Reagan signed the Bill into law period. He had a choice, Machine guns or the FOPA. Reagan chose FOPA, period. It is written in the History books.
Lucky
Member
I thought I read that if you built your own MG with parts from inside your state, and the MG never left your state, then it was not subject to Federal regulations (deriving power from inter-state commerce)?
That's wrong?
That's wrong?
WeedWhacker
Member
Lucky said:
Even if you build a machine gun within a state for your own personal use and never take it out of the state, it still affects interstate commerce because a bunch of guys with full-auto weapons, gas grenades, and armored tanks says it does.
It would be impossible to build any weapon without any part having travelled in interstate commerce. Even if all the parts were built from scratch the steel and other raw materials have to come from somewhere. then there's also the ammo.
I've seen some say use this interstate commerce and as weedwhacker said "they said so".
I've seen some say use this interstate commerce and as weedwhacker said "they said so".
OldBillThundercheif
Member
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You Brits will get a kick out of this:
http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/
It would be an extremely bad idea to make a machine-gun under normal circumstances, but the above page is very entertaining.
http://www.thehomegunsmith.com/
It would be an extremely bad idea to make a machine-gun under normal circumstances, but the above page is very entertaining.
Fosbery
Member
Aye, I've known about Peter for a long time. He's got some great designs, but if I was to build myself an MG and take my time with it, I'd go for a Sten. But it looks like I can't do that.
Hmm....$3000 for a MAC11. I've got nothing against them as a full-auto gun-gun (which is all it would be) I guess, but I'd just feel a bit hard done by getting such a tiny thing with such a bad reputation for all those notes. If I did get one, I'd want a stock and barrel extention (inside a fake silencer). And good mags, as you say.
Hmm....$3000 for a MAC11. I've got nothing against them as a full-auto gun-gun (which is all it would be) I guess, but I'd just feel a bit hard done by getting such a tiny thing with such a bad reputation for all those notes. If I did get one, I'd want a stock and barrel extention (inside a fake silencer). And good mags, as you say.
Cromlech
Member
Yeah, I have been to his website many times. If they caught you making one over here though, they would make an example of you, and probably try to link you to arms dealing too.
He got time in prison, just for making one.
He got time in prison, just for making one.
AK103K
member
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The M11/9 SMG's(they are select fire, by the way) have a collapsible stock that works very well. Its actually very fast to deploy and sturdy enough to shoot well with.
The barrel extension isnt necessary, and if I were to go that route, I'd cough up the money and go with a suppressor. The silly strap that comes with the gun is best thrown away. If you use a good Weaver type hold on the grip, its very easy to shoot the gun well without an extension. Their high rate of fire does take a little getting used to if your used to the slower rate guns, but its no biggie really. Instead of a two to three round burst, you get a five round burst.
I think most of the reliability issues are due to bad mags. The early Zytel mags had problems, which they corrected early on, and most of the corrected ones I have, work fine. I have tried some of the metal mags, and didnt have much luck. The mags I got, did not want to fit in the mag well properly, and of the 10 I bought, only one would feed half a mag without a stoppage.
My gun is now over 20 years old and has many tens of thousands of rounds of all sorts of 9mm through it. If you stick to standard and NATO 9mm, your fine. I did crack the first upper tube and break off a charging handle early on using some very hot Spanish SMG 9mm. About 2000 rounds is all it took. Some hot and corrosive Egyptian SMG ammo didnt help either. Other than recoil buffers, which I now make out of bike inner tube, nothing else has broke or wore out in the 18+ years since I put the new top on. A $60 part, by the way.
The MAC and also the STEN, and a few others are really only $100 guns at best. I doubt I'd buy either for what they go for today. Then again, all of them are obscenely priced and for only one reason, a fixed number of transferable guns in a silly registry. I paid $800 for my MP5 back in 86. I had bought it as a HK94, for $450(they now sell for around $3000 due to another silly ban) with that purpose in mind, and only due to someone I knew who had a few guns and a source that alluded to the coming 86 ban, was I able to get it sent off and converted, just a few weeks before Reagan signed the bill. We received no warning from the NRA, (and I was a member at that point) and the gun owner loving republicans cut our throats, as they have done at other times. A politician, from any party, is not your friend, if you havent yet figured that out.
Cromlech
Member
Wow, you have done pretty well on that MP5, considering prices today! 
Cromlech
Member
I take it that you plan on keeping all those rare and wonderful items to yourself, then?
Cromlech
Member
If I ever visit your area while on holdiay, I'll knock on the door and ask Mrs. AK103K if you can come out to play.
I'll bring plenty of boxes of 9mm, of course.
I'll bring plenty of boxes of 9mm, of course.
geekWithA.45
Moderator Emeritus
Aaaaah!
And THAT is the miracle of the outcome of Wickard v. Filburn.
In VERY rough summary, a guy grew more wheat on his farm than a certain agricultural price control act said that he could, for his own consumption. (That of his family and livestock). He then challenged the ag act, pointing out that since it was his wheat, consumed by his family and farm, and therefore never traveled in interstate commerce, Congress had no jurisdiction, and could therefore kiss his hairy buttocks.
The Supreme Court, which by this time was 8 FDR appointees, told the farmer to kiss THEIR hairy buttocks, because even though the wheat didn't travel in interstate commerce, it AFFECTED interstate commerce because said farmer would not be buying wheat that DID travel in interstate commerce, which altered the demand part of the supply & demand equation.
And they can do this those 8 FDR appointed judges said they could.
FDR is such a mixed bag.
He saved us from a full blown commie revolution, shepherded us through the Great Depression and WWII, but he made a hash of the Republic in so doing.
He NEEDED those 8 judges, because the previous court opposed him on constitutional grounds at every turn. Ever since then, it's been "game on" for Congress & the Executive.
WeedWhacker
Member
geekWithA.45 said:
While I agree with your facts, eight people declaring something to be so does not necessarily change reality. The truth is, those guys with full-auto weapons, gas grenades, and armored tanks are the ones which force everyone to "agree".
-edit to fix totally embarassing speeling misteak
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Kaylee
Member
Maybe because as the guy who invented the whole explosion of Alphabet Agencies thing, so much of what we was doing was unconstitutional?
And Mr. Whacker makes a fair point indeed.
Third_Rail
Member
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The entire idea of forcing people to agree reminds me of a comedy sketch from a while back...
"Saddam, sir, your approval rating has fallen to 99.999%!"
"FIX IT!"
*BANG*
"The approval rating is back up to 100%."
"Saddam, sir, your approval rating has fallen to 99.999%!"
"FIX IT!"
*BANG*
"The approval rating is back up to 100%."
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