Fusion parts problems

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Hello,
I'm new here, so will give you a little background info before going further.
I'm a gunsmith, mostly working on higher grade SxS's. I make repairs, but do a lot of finish nwork, rust bluing, damascus refinishing, checkering ,etc. I've also leaned toward higher end custom rifles and older msingle and double action revolvers. I for the most part, shied away from semi-autos for years, because I felt most had inherent accuracy problems. I could out shoot most of my friends autos using my S&W 36 snub nose. Then I shot a friends Wilson Combat.... That was it. Apparently I just needed exposure to the right semi-auto's. At this point I decided to join the game. I picked up a 70 series Govt. Model Colt. Trigger pull was a bit strong and accuracy poor, at best. Since the pull was so far off, I decided to start there. I found Fusion firearms on the net and, since I had little experience working on these, decided to get a complete trigger kit. Installation was no problem, I've had far more complicated guns, and I love Brownings design for exactly that reason, simple and functional. Anyway, here's where the problems started. While the pull was lightened, it was a bit spongy, not as crisp as with the original parts. The biggest problems were with the hammer following and the grip safety hanging up. I'd had no problems with the safety fitting properly before this. Well, I contacted Bob, while waiting for a response I did some research on the following problem and it seemed most likely that it was caused by sear spring tension or tension on the disconnect. After I got the same response fron Bob, basically add sear spring tension, I tried this, a little more each time, but the problem remained. Although the trigger pull was at 4 1/4 lb already, I decided to try adding a bit more tension on the disconnect spring. In doing so, I noticed that the business side of the spring was burred across the entire tip. I filed this to about a 45 degree angle to remove the burr, and applied a bit more spring tension. I still had the following issue. At this point I decided to pull things completely apart again and give all the parts a close inspection. The sear nose was in rough shape, irregular, burred in spots, and even appeared to have some metal missing.
Sorry for the length of this tale, but now down to the point. I'm writing of this issue here because I feel I'll find many with a good bit of experience with this type of thing.
I decided to give up. I wrote Bob asking that he refund my money. From my perspective there had to be some initial flaw in one or more of these parts in the kit. The response I got was that since I'd filed the burr from the disconnect spring, Fusion would accept no responsibility, therefore no refund on parts. Not even partial with the assumption I'd needlessly ruined the spring.
What I'm asking for here is opinion from those with more experience and perhaps a different perspective than mine. What mistakes have I made here, and what can I do to make good use of the parts I've purchased? Or do I simply trash them all and start from scratch?
Once again, sorry for the length of this post, and thanks in advance for any advice.
Jim

 

[BBBBill]

If you had cut the sear, hammer or disconnector, I would think that the parts were yours to keep. Deburring a spring that should be deburred, whether by them or you, not so much. I've not used Fusion, but have heard lots of negatives from folks that I know and trust. Realizing your background, I still have to ask whether you have the needed specifications and tools for a 1911. Recommend that you get the Kuhnhausen Volume 1 manual, read here and especially over at www.1911pro.com for more insight into what makes a proper trigger job that will not follow. Lots of real pros and serious amateurs there. I can recommend parts from EGW, Wilson, Cylinder & Slide, Dave Berryhill, and Extreme Engineering off the top of my head. All are quality. Some will require more prep than others. If you do not yet have a quality 1911 specific sear jig, the new one by Chuck Warner is outstanding and is priced right.

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Thanks. Believe me, I know enough about guns and trigger pulls in general to realize the need for the specialized sear jig. I'm also very curious about adjustments to the hammer notch and if there's not a jig for that as well. The reason I ask is that with the original hammer from my 70 series, I had a bit better pull than with the A-1 hammer I've installed. My reason for using the A-1 hammer is that I like the wider and checkered spur. Comparing the two hammer notches, I've noticed that the notch on the A-1 is cut more deeply. It would be easy enough to take away a bit of that extra depth, which should decrease pull as well as creep, but I fear the potential for creating another problem. I've done a lot of trigger jobs, but have the sense to realize that the 1911 is not so simple as others. This is the reason for ordering a complete kit this time. I figured I would then have a gun with acceptable pull, and be able to get the appropriate jig or any other tools needed to experiment with the old parts. Always being 15 minutes away from being able to put the working parts back in and go shooting when I wanted to. I intend to learn the ins and outs of 1911 work before accepting work on clients guns, which means going through a lot of trial and error on my own first. Call me old fashioned .
I appreciate your recommendations on both the manual and the sear jig. I've got a small handful of books on this subject and none of them has gotten into the real "nuts-n bolts" of how the 1911 works and can safely be refined.
I really think I should have known better on this Fusion issue. I should have just gone to Wilson and paid the price for known quality, but at the time the info I had on Mr. Serva seemed to be positive..... I feel pretty stupid, because I always preach and deliver quality over price on my full time career, which is commercial/industrial refrigeration. I supervise and manage the highest quality group of refrigeration techs in the Indianapolis area, but not the cheapest.
Once again, I thank you for taking the time to offer advice to a novice on this subject. I'm quite certain I'll have more questions before I'm through the learning curve, but through this curve I intend to go. Bear with me, as I'm the inquisitive sort.
I intend to try Mr. Serva once more on some sort of refund. If I get nowhere, I'll consider it a $100 lesson. I've had worse.
Thanks,
Jim

 

[TerryR]

Private message (PM) sent to you Jim on the White Powder Wonder 20 ga shotgun.
Thanks Terry

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Terry,
Check your e-mail. All I need is an address and the parts are yours.
Jim

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Sorry Terry. Response defaulted to my work e-mail, which won't go out until I plug in tomorrow. PM me your address and I'll ship you the parts mentioned. Hope they work on your gun.
Jim

 

[TerryR]

PM sent THANK YOU!
Terry

 

[BBBBill]

Jim, you can encounter almost innumerable variations in hammer hook geometry and surface finish. Some are great as is, some are left with a bit of work for the smith to fit to his specs, some are crap. I reiterate the suggestion to go over to www.1911pro.com as there is a large pool of 1911 specific knowledge resident there.
At one time www.1911forum.com was a good resource, too, but it has degenerated lately and many of the better correspondents there have withdrawn including removing their posts.
Here's one post on the new sear jig that I mentioned earlier - http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=335508&highlight=hammer
I've recently gone to that jig after years of using an old Tom Brown jig, then a Ron Power Series 1. Both great jigs, but I now believe the TR jig to be a better solution. The old Tom Wilson company also had a hammer jig and the Ron Power Series 1 can be used for that, too. Not as necessary as a sear jig, but nice to have. You can do it without one as long as you start with a quality hammer and can keep a square stone straight over the hooks while holding in a tool maker's vice. Generally, a well prepped hammer can have the hooks safely lowered to .020". I've seen lower on specialty guns, but don't really see the need.

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

BBBBill,
When you talk of square on the hammer hook.. I've wondered if the old "center of the hammer pin hole" method applies here. In other words, you get the exact diameter of the hole in the hammer, put a pin exactly half that size through the hole, and use that in a smooth jawed vise to determine the correct position in which to stone the face of the hammer notch. If you follow that. It's the correct way to do single and double action revolvers. I just am not certain on 1911's. I will try the 1911pro site as well.
Jim

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

BTW,
I've got Bob Serva telling me he'll refund if I haven't "worked" anything. I've responded that a refund less the cost of the spring I deburred would be acceptable. The sear hooks have been damaged with all this hammer follow, but I'm sending him the parts Monday. We'll see how this goes.

 

[JockeyShifter]

I bought several Fusion ignition kits, the triggers had to all be cut down, they were super sized and could not be put in either gun. The hammer and strut were very tight, I figured the hammer pin would be a press fit and a very small clearance on the strut. Both worked well.
When I get new parts in,
My thoughts are to FIRST determine if I will need to modify any parts after opening and checking the fits,
**** if I alter any part, I lose my right to request a refund and exchange****

 

[BBBBill]

I bought several Fusion ignition kits, the triggers had to all be cut down...

As they should be. That is part of a custom fit experience. To be clear, I'm neither pro or con on Fusion. I have zero experience with them. The proof is in the quality of the product and customer service .... or lack of.

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

A little update on this situation. Still no real response from Mr. Serva. I used an old Brownells sear jig to polish up the sear and, per their instruction cut the hammer notch down to around .030. This is on an old A-1 hammer that I liked the looks and feel of better than the original. I've accomplished a 4 3/4 lb trigger pull. I've considered taking the notch down to a bit closer to .020 but I'm a bit cautious about pushing this heavy old hammer too far. All in all, not too bad on results from using the old parts. This makes the feeling that the trigger kit I purchased for this job had some sort of inherent problem from the start.
Any opinions as to whether I should try to fine tune that hammer notch a bit more? Or should I be happy as it now stands?
Thanks,
Jim

 

[Skylerbone]

Jim, without proper pretravel, without adjusting the overtravel screw correctly and without verifying even contact across the sear nose you'll never achieve a safe light trigger pull. Indeed you are correct that the hammer follow damaged the sear nose if it dropped to half-cock. You could shoot for .020 and still be good but +1 on the Warner Pistols jig, it may get you where you want to be without further work. On the sear spring, smooth and polish, don't bevel and start with a new Colt spring.

Best of luck, read J.K. and be safe.

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Just a little update. Bob Serva received my returned trigger kit on April 18th. I have proof of this delivery via USPS. He has since refused to acknowledge this return in any fashion other than to say he's "waiting to hear from the shipping ladies". I've even sent an e-mail suggesting that if he doesn't want to warrant the quality of his product he could at least send the junk back. I could eventually find a use for the hammer and such. No response. To my mind this has now turned into theft. I would suggest anyone considering a purchase through Mr. Serva keep this in mind.
On the brighter side, I've got the front strap hand checkered nicely, the ejection port lowered and flared.The gun looks and shoots well. I'm thinking of getting another to fine tune even more. In this case it will be with Wilson parts. I may start with a little less expense on the original gun however. Maybe a Springfield?
Luck,
Jim

 

[Jolly Rogers]

Not surprised. Seems like Bob is very selective as to which squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Joe

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Another update. It seems as though Bob has taken another look at the situation. He has asked for paypal info in order to reimburse me. I haven't seen the payment yet...., but it's sounding positive.

 

[Legion489]

Jim, be very careful least you be called a troll! My experiance with a low quality maker of pot metal reloading presses seems to have inflamed the stupid and gotten me threated with being banned. Yes, I have used Fusion parts and for the most part, been fairly happy, not over joyed or anything, but they did what I needed to at the time. I agree they were not what I would concider one of the better made parts, but if you really want high grade parts, you need to buy high grade parts, which is what I try to do.

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

I appreciate the advice, but I don't see how I could be construed as a troll. I've helped others on this site, to the best of my ability, offer advice when I can be of help, etc. In this case, Mr. Serva seems to have a problem backing his product. Actually, I'm not certain that his problem doesn't lie more in the customer service realm. However, that's something that other's need to know. I certainly wish I had done more research on the subject. I'm here to learn. Mostly I expect that learning to be on technical issues concerning the 1911 platform. I expect others to be completely honest with me, no matter the subject, and I intend to do the same. You seem to be hinting at a quality issue concerning Fusion parts. If that's a real issue, others need to know. Most of what we do concerning firearms is more labor intensive than anything. Why would anyone want to go through a lot of labor using inferior parts? That said, if you know something that could save the rest of us some time and headache, come out and say it.
At the risk of being called a troll.... Things seem to have come to a standstill, again.

 

[Skylerbone]

Most public forums ask members to refrain from posting grievances on their board. It allows the limited volunteer staff time to look after more significant matters rather than cleaning house on non-THR threads. If a line is never drawn it will surely be crossed far too often for comfort.

Posting a personal experience with a particular brand or company and discussing the on-going dilemma, so long as factual and polite is fair information in my book. If the ownership, admin. or moderators feel it is not in keeping with the spirit of THR or that liability is a concern they reserve the right to delete such commentary.

To the OP, I hope a positive resolution comes your way soon.

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Problem taken care of. I received a full refund sans the usual PayPal fees.
This gun still doesn't seem to shoot as I would expect as far as accuracy. 4 3/4lb trigger pull. The barrel locks up tight, both front and back. I'm just not sure where to take it from here. Does a match grade barrel make a big difference, even if the original Colt barrel seems fit well? Or is there something I could be missing?
Jim

 

[Skylerbone]

As a general rule OEM 1911 parts like barrels are dimensioned for universal fit rather than being fine tuned for the specific pistol. While the rifling and chamber may be capable of tremendous accuracy it cannot be realized without solid support from the rest of the pistol.

An aftermarket gunsmith-fit barrel is oversized to allow all critical contact points to be fit to much tighter tolerances. That translates to better lock up and better accuracy. If you think yours is solid on lock up now, you can check with dyekem on the lower lugs and narrow feeler gauges between the breechface and barrel hood.

Look for even contact of lower lugs on the slide stop's pin. Slip the narrow feeler gauges in and verify the thickest gauge that will still allow the upper lugs to engage the slide. Bullseye builders shoot for .001 or less, I'll guess you can start with .012 or more.