FYI: From a New Zealand Gun Forum

[GEM]

I seldom see pro-2A gun owners becoming anti-gun. But I often see previously anti-2A gun owners becoming pro-gun after gun purchase.

You would think that they learned a lesson...

Selective information processing is a hindrance to understanding the right for the RKBA.

There are quite a few folks in the gun world who have come out strongly against the ownership of military style semiautomatic firearms (to use the term of the month). Need I post a list of supposedly progun politicians who have spoken in favor of such from the 'conservative' wing: Bush, Romney, Trump, Dole, Bjork, etc. Gun world folks such as Zumbo, the guy from Guns and Ammo, etc. Now some of them recant when faced with political consequences or financial consequences but that is just being craven and not a real change of world view.

Now - learning a lesson. The NZ population does not see the ownership of personal firearms as a deterrent to foreign invasion. They face nothing like the UK did in WWII. Tell them that they need a bunch of civilians with rifles to stop the Chinese? They will laugh at you.

Even if you told the American population that we need rifles for defense against invasion, they will laugh at you. I recall whacky posts that the Chinese were loaded up in ships in Long Beach harbor, the UN troops were going to invade to take our guns, the Chinese were massing on the Mexican border. Just looked nuts. The Yamamoto quote is bogus. The Swiss had a militia army but had their bacon saved more by collaboration with the Nazis and the threats to blow up the tunnels through the Alps, that they let the Nazis used.

Cliches and inappropriate analogies will not win the debate in the USA. NZ won't become a crime ridden hell hole or some kind of tyranny. Find better arguments for the RKBA in the USA.

 

[BSA1]

Selective information processing is a hindrance to understanding the right for the RKBA.

Cliches and inappropriate analogies will not win the debate in the USA...Find better arguments for the RKBA in the USA.

How about the hell gun owners are going to pay if one of the Socialist Democrats running for President get elected. It will only take three RINOs to pass severe gun control laws.

Oops. Politics are not allowed on THR but gun control is all about politics.

 

[Waveski]

Selective information processing is a hindrance to understanding the right for the RKBA.

Cliches and inappropriate analogies will not win the debate in the USA. NZ won't become a crime ridden hell hole or some kind of tyranny. Find better arguments for the RKBA in the USA.

That historical reference was intended to illustrate the fact the the British Commonwealth , it's Dominions et. al. , have a long history of limiting the right of it's subjects to possess firearms.
In this country the possession of firearms is a right to which we believe we are entitled as free citizens , as opposed to a "right" which is granted or denied to subjects by the government. It is clear that New Zealand is one of a number of countries that does not trust it's subjects in that regard.

 

[FlSwampRat]

Early in WWII , prior to the U.S. entry , England was in an extreme bind - invasion by the Germans via France appeared imminent , and the English citizenry along the channel coast was armed with little more than farm tools. The U.S. sent many thousands of firearms to the Brits to enable them to defend their island. With that crisis past the British government saw fit to disarm it's subjects once again.
You would think that they learned a lesson...

I wonder what would have happened if Germany had done the Channel crossing before the Allies. I know it's most likely Yamamoto didn't talk about a rifle behind every blade of grass in the US, but I'm sure the level of private gun ownership here would give a potential armed invading army's commander pause.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Citizens own their government.
Subjects are owned by their government.
Their basic philosophies are derived from this difference.

 

[GEM]

I'm sure the level of private gun ownership here would give a potential armed invading army's commander pause.

The Atlantic and Pacific oceans give potential armed invading armies more pause. The logistics of invading the current USA is quite daunting. The British had an established logistical base in the Revolution and 1812. That doesn't exist now. It's really a non-starter for an RKBA argument and can be a negative. Sure, it's fun for counter-factual sci-fi but in a discussion of why folks should own ARs, not worth going there.

When discussing the UN invasion to take our guns, I've always thought that UN troops would vanish into the countryside and resurface as Uber drivers and owners of mom and pop restaurants.

The core issue is that some countries are democracies but they don't think that they need personal firearms to insure the survival of the democracy. We do.

 

[Labguy47]

I’m kinda surprised, read all three pages and haven’t heard of one boating accident. The PVC pipe was a nice touch.

What concerns me the most is the fact that they have fear of an inanimate object. Evil people don’t need a semi-auto weapon to kill, look at the rented trucks plowing through crowds in Europe. Pressure cooker bombers at marathons here in the US. Evil will find a way.

I’m just guessing but the effect of these restrictions on farmers seems a bit over the top. To tell a man he can’t defend his livelihood from varmints just doesn’t seem right.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Retracted. Sorry.

 

[Flechette]

Wow. It is almost like they had the language for that law ready and waiting for a massacre...

 

[theotherwaldo]

I see archery making a major comeback.

 

[GEM]

Folks, this is wandering into silliness and irrelevant comments. The major points have been made. So I'm closing it. If you have significant information to contribute, PM me and I might consider a re-opening. Till then, bye.