General Question...LEO trade-ins

[whatnickname]

Over the past several years, I've purchased a number of LEO trade-ins. Mostly Smith & Wesson second and third generation automatics. All showed some degree of holster wear but all were mechanically sound guns showing a relatively low round count. So my question is this: If these pistols were still servicable (which in most cases they are) what were the factors that resulted in the various departments disposing of them? When and why does a department decide to re-arm? The Florida Highway Patrol just dumped their Beretta model 96 pistols in favor of a more powerful .45 GAP. So I infer from this that caliber is sometimes a consideration. Besides caliber, I would like to know the other factors that go into a decision to re-arm an entire department. I would especially like to hear from any law enforecment officers out there.

 

[Checkman]

My department is switching from the 3rd Generation Glocks to 4th Generation because the company made the department a great deal when it was learned that Smith & Wesson was making an offering to sell us the M&P for a good deal. Not only is Glock going to sell us the new generation models for a very reasonable cost the department gets to sell it's current inventory to a gun dealer and pocket the change instead of having Glock take the older models in as trade.

Individual officers will be able to buy their Glock from the dealer when it's time for the trade-in. I've been carrying my Glock 19 since it was issued to me (brand-new) in 2006. I plan on buying it.

So that's the logic here with my agency. We get new pistols for less money than we spent in 2006 and we make money by selling the older stock. Money that can go towards buying ammo, targets, simunition, body armor, target stands, etc.

I'm sure it's different at other agencies.

 

[Telekinesis]

Back in the '70s (I think) my father's uncle was a Sheriff's Deputy in Ohio, and nearly every time a new Sheriff was elected, they would change firearms dependent on the preferences of the new Sheriff. My grandfather got a really nice S&W .357 Mag out of one of those changes. I'm sure the more recent changes are based a bit more on tangible factors rather than pure preference, but I'm sure at some level there's still a bit of that too.

Sometimes police departments want to transition to the newest model a manufacturer is offering (glock gen 3 to gen 4), or their guns are nearing the end of their service life. Sometimes its a complete change in caliber like a 9mm to .40 caliber (or .45 GAP as you mention) and other times its a change in trigger action like a DA/SA (like a Sig) to a DAO type trigger like a Glock (yes, I know its partially cocked, but its close enough for the argument at hand). And there's no doubt that deals like Checkman mentioned play a big role in the switch as well.

 

[Lawdawg45]

Over the past several years, I've purchased a number of LEO trade-ins. Mostly Smith & Wesson second and third generation automatics. All showed some degree of holster wear but all were mechanically sound guns showing a relatively low round count. So my question is this: If these pistols were still servicable (which in most cases they are) what were the factors that resulted in the various departments disposing of them? When and why does a department decide to re-arm? The Florida Highway Patrol just dumped their Beretta model 96 pistols in favor of a more powerful .45 GAP. So I infer from this that caliber is sometimes a consideration. Besides caliber, I would like to know the other factors that go into a decision to re-arm an entire department. I would especially like to hear from any law enforecment officers out there.

Lots of things factor into a change, especially with a large department. Ease of maintenance, availability of parts, customer service, and price all factor into the equation. Many departments traded their S&W semi autos for Glock's, and they now represent around 65% of the LE market.

LD

 

[PRM]

Like anything else:

1. The budget provided for upgrades.

Equipment wears from use and companies are always trying to upgrade their product. Technology improves. Doesn't mean old does not work ~ just more options become available.

2. Someone in the right position liked a particular gun or caliber.

Happens more often than one would think.

3. National and local trends have a lot to do with it.

Local agencies tend to give deference at times to what other, larger agencies advocate using (FBI...)

You could compile this list indefinitely.

 

[mac266]

My department has a wild policy of replacing every officer's handgun every 5 years. Very few cops shoot a lot other than our required training (once a quarter), but there are those of us who actually train with them when off-duty. In any event, they are NOT worn out after only five years of use. Given the fact we've seen 10 straight years of budget cuts with more looming, I think they should dump this policy!

That's what happens when non-gun-loving administrators are in charge of making gun policies.

The good side is they allow the officer to buy the old gun from the agency at the price they would have received for the trade-in. Last time that was something like $250. So the longer I work there, the bigger my gun collection is going to get

 

[whatnickname]

Wow...who would have thought

I really appreciate the responses guys. Basically this stuff is none of my business but part of me always wonders why guns with a little holster wear (but otherwise mechanically sound) get sold to folks like me for pennies on the dollar. I'm sure there are many more reasons than those mentioned above and I would like to continue to hear from other officers if anyone else would care to offer any insight. As for me, I will continue to look for good deals on the auction sites and places like Shotgun News. I bought a number of S&W model 66, 64,15,10 revolvers back when police agencies started to switch from revolvers to semi-autos. Didn't pay more than $150 for any of them. Most are in 85% to 90% condition and show very low round counts...care to hazard a guess as to what they would fetch today?

I would also like some information as to what happened to the revolvers once used by the Florida Highway Patrol if anyone out there knows. I grew up in Florida...back in the day the standard FHP uniform was a 5" .357 nickel plated revolver (either a S&W model 27 or a Colt Trooper) complete with genuine fake stag grips and a cross draw holster...I alway believed that the cross draw holster and fake stag grips was because some bureaucrat thought they looked good. The FHP officers I grew up around hated them...called them the "help yourself [to my weapon] holster". The frames of these revolvers were stamped FHP just below the cylinder. I have never seen any of these guns on the used market. Does anyone know what the Florida Highway Partol did with them?

 

[Lawdawg45]

I really appreciate the responses guys. Basically this stuff is none of my business but part of me always wonders why guns with a little holster wear (but otherwise mechanically sound) get sold to folks like me for pennies on the dollar. I'm sure there are many more reasons than those mentioned above and I would like to continue to hear from other officers if anyone else would care to offer any insight. As for me, I will continue to look for good deals on the auction sites and places like Shotgun News. I bought a number of S&W model 66, 64,15,10 revolvers back when police agencies started to switch from revolvers to semi-autos. Didn't pay more than $150 for any of them. Most are in 85% to 90% condition and show very low round counts...care to hazard a guess as to what they would fetch today?

I would also like some information as to what happened to the revolvers once used by the Florida Highway Patrol if anyone out there knows. I grew up in Florida...back in the day the standard FHP uniform was a 5" .357 nickel plated revolver (either a S&W model 27 or a Colt Trooper) complete with genuine fake stag grips and a cross draw holster...I alway believed that the cross draw holster and fake stag grips was because some bureaucrat thought they looked good. The FHP officers I grew up around hated them...called them the "help yourself [to my weapon] holster". The frames of these revolvers were stamped FHP just below the cylinder. I have never seen any of these guns on the used market. Does anyone know what the Florida Highway Partol did with them?

I don't know about "pennies on the dollar", but our largest metropolitan department here in Indy is in the process of trading the Gen 3's they've had for 10+ years, for the new Gen 4's. The price to the Officers to purchase their old gun is $325.

LD

 

[postalnut25]

As an LEO, my pistol is in pretty good shape. I don't see it getting dumped any time soon, either.

Of course, I have to buy my own duty weapons, so trading them just doesn't make sense.

 

[Strykervet]

My department is switching from the 3rd Generation Glocks to 4th Generation because the company made the department a great deal when it was learned that Smith & Wesson was making an offering to sell us the M&P for a good deal. Not only is Glock going to sell us the new generation models for a very reasonable cost the department gets to sell it's current inventory to a gun dealer and pocket the change instead of having Glock take the older models in as trade.

Individual officers will be able to buy their Glock from the dealer when it's time for the trade-in. I've been carrying my Glock 19 since it was issued to me (brand-new) in 2006. I plan on buying it.

So that's the logic here with my agency. We get new pistols for less money than we spent in 2006 and we make money by selling the older stock. Money that can go towards buying ammo, targets, simunition, body armor, target stands, etc.

I'm sure it's different at other agencies.

This sounds like how it works.

In the late '80's or early '90's, Glock went around to PD's GIVING them new Glocks if they would A. give them their 3rd. gen. Smiths, and B. purchase one magazine. They then sold the Smiths and made their profit that way, simultaneously edging Smith out of the market that they basically owned.

So it's pretty much wheeling and dealing, some of those pistols are like brand new, some are worn out, so they replace them all at such and such time. The 3rd gen. Smiths are some of the best deals going. Especially those 1006 and 4506 tanks, but the 9mm's are smoking hot right now.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

My department changed guns and even traded in ones that were never issued to an officer. Some appeared to have never been fired.

 

[Drail]

Our shop used to jump on any LEO weapons that were being sold off. All of them had finish wear but showed obviously extremely low round counts. If the finish wear really bothers you have it refinished. Really good deals can be had.

 

[Don357]

QUOTE:[Like anything else:

1. The budget provided for upgrades.

Equipment wears from use and companies are always trying to upgrade their product. Technology improves. Doesn't mean old does not work ~ just more options become available.

2. Someone in the right position liked a particular gun or caliber.

Happens more often than one would think.

3. National and local trends have a lot to do with it.

Local agencies tend to give deference at times to what other, larger agencies advocate using (FBI...)

You could compile this list indefinitely. ] END QUOTE

Add this... Someone in the right position gets a kickback on the sale for choosing "brand G" over "brand S" or "brand T".

 

[JustinJ]

I really appreciate the responses guys. Basically this stuff is none of my business but part of me always wonders why guns with a little holster wear (but otherwise mechanically sound) get sold to folks like me for pennies on the dollar.

Well, if you're paying taxes to pay for said guns it certainly is your business.

I would venture that as others have said some trade ins are driven by wanting the "newer and better" which would explain why guns with few rounds are traded in. However, departments also must take into account that while some cops shoot very little and have guns in relatively great shape others shoot often and have worn out their sidearms. So in order to get better deals they buy everyone a new gun and ensure the frequent shooters have reliable weapons.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

However, departments also must take into account that while some cops shoot very little and have guns in relatively great shape others shoot often and have worn out their sidearms. So in order to get better deals they buy everyone a new gun and ensure the frequent shooters have reliable weapons.

That is kind of why my department went from Gen 3's to Gen 4's. Our olders Gen 3's were 12 years old. Our newest less than 2 years. However, it was hard to gauge how much each had been used. To be on the safe side, the department considered putting a parts kit in each gun. The cost of the kit was well over 100 dollars. On top of that, we were gonna have to pay an armorer his salary to install them. The cost to trade in our Gen 3's for Gen 4's was only about 180 bucks per gun. On paper, it cost us very few dollars to get brand new guns with brand new mags for everyone.

 

[Cougar]

Well, I have a buddy who worked as a LEO during the transition years of the '80s from revolver to auto... At the time, his department was issued S&W Mod 19 .357s, but was issued .38SPL ammo... When he left a few years later (shooting-related health issue), he was given the opportunity to purchase his duty gun for a song ($175) because the were transitioning to autos... I should have told him to take it and I'd buy it, but he was too 'scrambled' mentally from the 'near-death' that he let it pass.... I'd love to have a mildy-used 19!

 

[lemaymiami]

Occasionally, mind you not the usual, an agency actually asks its firearms trainers and armorer what they'd like to have... That actually happened on my agency in the mid to late eighties. We'd been issued revolvers for years and years, then finally allowed anyone that wanted to permission to carry a variety of semi-autos that met requirements. We got a new chief on board who wanted to have a first rate agency and first rate equipment... The result was Sig Sauers for all (and my issue 40cal came with night sights...). The downside was that they were sufficiently expensive that the only way you bought one on retirement was to pay what the Department had paid when they were new... We'd had a tradition of allowing a retiring officer to purchase his/her duty weapon for $1... My $1 purchase was the model 10 heavy barrel S & W 4" that was issued to me new at the end of 1973... I still have it today.

 

[19&41]

Turn-ins are a good way to get a good used pistol. I have recently bought a Century Arms marked 5946. Does anyone know where Century got these pistols?

 

[wrs840]

I've bought five police trade-ins from internet distributors: A S&W M64 for $279 that is truly wonderful, two S&W 5904s for around $350, one's great with just a few scratches, one's fully functional but with a fair amount of holster wear and a barrel that's maybe 50% and really ought to be replaced, and two 3913's for around $400, one is perfect, one looked good in the photos, but the barrel was pretty much shot out. I got rid of that one in a trade at a LGS, and didn't get hurt on the money. The owner knew it would move quick anyway, I guess. (I didn't ask why he was giving me more than I thought it was worth.)

It's kind of a crap shoot, but I've had good luck, on average, with LE trades... S&W stuff anyway.

 

[whatnickname]

LEO Trade-ins I've bought in the past three years

S&W 4566...about 95% with a butter-smooth trigger (bobbed hammer) $297

S&W 4006...mims trigger and exposed hammer 95% $317

S&W 4006...Bobbed hammer adjustable sights 90% $325

S&W 4006...Bobbed hammer adjustable sights 85% $364

S&W 659...Fixed sights 95% $300

S&W 6906...Bobbed hammer 80% $267

Items 1, 2, 3 & 5 above will shoot 2" to 3" at 25 yards with the right ammo. Got stung a bit on the 4006 I bought for $364...no deep sctarches in the finish just a ton of rub marks. It looked better in the picture. Can't seem to get this pistol to shoot better than 4" at 25 yards. The 6906 shows a ton of holster wear but the damn thing shoots 2" at 25 yards. Not a single one of these pistols have ever failed to run...they go "bang" every time I pull the trigger! The 6906 gets carried a good bit (CCW) when I travel. The 659 is actually stamped "Wood Co. S.O." on the frame. The dealer advised me that was Wood County, Ohio...which I think is pretty neat. I would not hesitate to defend life and limb with any one of these pistols. On top of that, good quality used mages are available for all the 40s and the 9s at very inexpensive prices. Smith isn't making any more of these pistols. I purchased every one of them for far less that it cost some department when they were new. All they are going to do is appreciate in value when the supply dries up...and it will dry up just as it did for the stainless steel S&W LEO trade-in revolvers I bought a number of years ago. In the mean time, I enjoy using them and, while I would not intentionally abuse any of them, another nick or scratch doesn't exactly break my heart.

 

[GRIZ22]

Many agencies trade guns in due to liability concerns. The lawyers told them best to get new guns every 5-10 years in case there is a failure which can result in a lawsuit against the agency. Not that the guns are worn out, most just well broken in.

This is somewhat overcautious as I know many guys who carried the same handgun for 30 or more years (and shot it on a regular basis). I know of one agency that issued J frames for off duty/backup use. They recently recalled all of them and got rid of them when they realized some of these guns were nearly 40 years old.

 

[zonzin]

I recently pick up a LEO trade in H&K USP Compact .40. It's about 90% and looks like it was shot maybe a couple of hundred rounds. Probably used by a desk sargent or something,, no seatbelt wear,, or any wear for that matter. Awesome gun,, out the door for $613. Came as a Variant 3,, I converted to Variant 1.





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[whatnickname]

Zonzin

Very nice!