jackie treehorn
Member
OK, here goes.
Last night I had a friend over to watch the Giants-Cowboys game. In the course of the evening we discussed the Plaxico Burress situation, which is an embarrassment to all gun owners as far as I can tell. We agree that he was a fool.
Some background on my friend: He is an avid hunter and has a few rifles and a black powder rifle. We have been friends for about 5 years and he is basically of the mind that guns are for hunting and target practice.
So we continue to have the conversation, and he tells me that carrying a loaded gun with one in the chamber is dangerous and stupid. I inform him that I carry my gun (a Walther P99 Compact) in such a fashion, but that I ALWAYS carry in a holster and that's one of the reasons that Mr. Burress found himself shot in the leg. He goes on to say that the risk of carrying one in the chamber and injuring yourself is higher than the risk of being a victim of violent crime.
I explain that there are thousands, if not millions, of defensive uses of a handgun per year. He responds, "Well, how come I never read about them?" At this point the conversation becomes a bit tense because I am well versed in both safety and the politics and policy of gun ownership. I point out that the defensive uses of a handgun are not exciting, and that there is plenty of evidence that people are more likely to be able to defend themselves if they have a gun.
He then proceeds to tell me that I am nuts for carrying a round in the chamber when "All you have to do is pull the slide back and put a round in". I explain that most defensive shootings don't give you much time to think about it and he says, "it only takes a second". I explain that I don't want to have to take a second to ready my gun and that when I need it, I need it RIGHT THEN. I even offer to get two of my handguns (empty of course) and demonstrate the difference in time. My wife stopped me from doing this, as I think she did not want to embarrass my friend when he realized that by the time he was about to rack the slide I would have already been saying "bang".
Then he proceeds to tell me that condition 1 / zero violates everything he ever learned about gun safety. I explain that he probably learned to shoot rifles and that the strategies for safety for them are different in that you do not carry one for self defense. (Darn, I just realized that I should have asked him if he opens the bolt and loads a round when he sees a deer!). Anyway, he concedes this point but thinks that having a round in the chamber is dangerous and his being in the health and safety field makes him think that this is just an accident waiting to happen. I explain that I follow the four rules and I am as respectful of my firearm's ability to kill or destroy as anyone. I gently try to explain that I am well-versed on this topic and he could stand to read some things to educate himself on gun ownership and carry. I explain that most everyone, police included, carry one in the chamber. He was astonished and could not believe this. So, question #1 - Do you carry with one in the chamber?
I explain that an unloaded gun is a paperweight and that I don't think I would have the time and focus to rack the slide in such a situation. He still disagrees and and then begins to say, "Well, I guess I'm stupid", which is his way of saying, "I think you're stupid". Question #2 - How do I respond without insulting? (I responded by saying that I carry a gun as often as possible and that I have never had a ND / AD. I also said that he was not stupid, just not as informed on this topic as I am). It is difficult to have conversations with people who have no experience with handguns (which he conceded he does not) and assume that the gun will just "go off" and what not. This one really tried my patience, as it was just peppered with myths about guns and carrying.
I also explained that I worried about an AD when I started carrying and so I first started with a Walther PPK /S with an external safety. Then I got my P99C and carried without a round in the chamber for a month to make sure that there was never a situation where it would have fired. Of course, it didn't and that's when I began to carry in condition zero.
Finally, we got to the real issue. His wife carries a Kahr K-9 in her purse. She keeps one in the chamber, and keeps it in a holster. Apparently he had the same conversation with her (which is probably where the "I guess I'm stupid" comment came from) with his telling her that carrying one in the chamber is unsafe and she probably said much of the same things I did.
But here's the issue. She's not exactly detail oriented and they have a five year old son. I can understand his concern about his son being around a loaded gun with no external safety and one in the chamber. However, this is not how he presented the topic. I feel like I was baited, as had he expressed his dismay at his wife's carry method I could have been more sympathetic. I tried to explain that she may be better off with a gun with an external safety, but that when she carries a gun, it should be in a manner in which she has control over it at all times. I explained to him that when his son comes over I secure my firearms and when I visit his house I secure them in a lock box because I know he doesn't want me carrying in his house.
Question #3 - What's good advice for the highest level of safety while still providing for a quick response should she need it?
This was a tough situation and discussion, as he is anti self-defense with a gun. He believes that the likelihood of my needing a gun is outweighed by the risks of me keeping one loaded, chambered and with me. I have, for years, tried to convince him of the merits of having a means of protection, but he does not see the value and really thinks guns are bad (except for hunting). He always claims that he lived in Richmond and he didn't need a gun. I explain that I don't know when I will need it, but that if I ever do I will have never needed something so badly in my life.
Thoughts, responses, and particularly information that would be helpful in easing his fears that carry with a round in the chamber and no external safety (condition zero) is reasonable.
Thanks for the help.
Jackie Treehorn
Last night I had a friend over to watch the Giants-Cowboys game. In the course of the evening we discussed the Plaxico Burress situation, which is an embarrassment to all gun owners as far as I can tell. We agree that he was a fool.
Some background on my friend: He is an avid hunter and has a few rifles and a black powder rifle. We have been friends for about 5 years and he is basically of the mind that guns are for hunting and target practice.
So we continue to have the conversation, and he tells me that carrying a loaded gun with one in the chamber is dangerous and stupid. I inform him that I carry my gun (a Walther P99 Compact) in such a fashion, but that I ALWAYS carry in a holster and that's one of the reasons that Mr. Burress found himself shot in the leg. He goes on to say that the risk of carrying one in the chamber and injuring yourself is higher than the risk of being a victim of violent crime.
I explain that there are thousands, if not millions, of defensive uses of a handgun per year. He responds, "Well, how come I never read about them?" At this point the conversation becomes a bit tense because I am well versed in both safety and the politics and policy of gun ownership. I point out that the defensive uses of a handgun are not exciting, and that there is plenty of evidence that people are more likely to be able to defend themselves if they have a gun.
He then proceeds to tell me that I am nuts for carrying a round in the chamber when "All you have to do is pull the slide back and put a round in". I explain that most defensive shootings don't give you much time to think about it and he says, "it only takes a second". I explain that I don't want to have to take a second to ready my gun and that when I need it, I need it RIGHT THEN. I even offer to get two of my handguns (empty of course) and demonstrate the difference in time. My wife stopped me from doing this, as I think she did not want to embarrass my friend when he realized that by the time he was about to rack the slide I would have already been saying "bang".
Then he proceeds to tell me that condition 1 / zero violates everything he ever learned about gun safety. I explain that he probably learned to shoot rifles and that the strategies for safety for them are different in that you do not carry one for self defense. (Darn, I just realized that I should have asked him if he opens the bolt and loads a round when he sees a deer!). Anyway, he concedes this point but thinks that having a round in the chamber is dangerous and his being in the health and safety field makes him think that this is just an accident waiting to happen. I explain that I follow the four rules and I am as respectful of my firearm's ability to kill or destroy as anyone. I gently try to explain that I am well-versed on this topic and he could stand to read some things to educate himself on gun ownership and carry. I explain that most everyone, police included, carry one in the chamber. He was astonished and could not believe this. So, question #1 - Do you carry with one in the chamber?
I explain that an unloaded gun is a paperweight and that I don't think I would have the time and focus to rack the slide in such a situation. He still disagrees and and then begins to say, "Well, I guess I'm stupid", which is his way of saying, "I think you're stupid". Question #2 - How do I respond without insulting? (I responded by saying that I carry a gun as often as possible and that I have never had a ND / AD. I also said that he was not stupid, just not as informed on this topic as I am). It is difficult to have conversations with people who have no experience with handguns (which he conceded he does not) and assume that the gun will just "go off" and what not. This one really tried my patience, as it was just peppered with myths about guns and carrying.
I also explained that I worried about an AD when I started carrying and so I first started with a Walther PPK /S with an external safety. Then I got my P99C and carried without a round in the chamber for a month to make sure that there was never a situation where it would have fired. Of course, it didn't and that's when I began to carry in condition zero.
Finally, we got to the real issue. His wife carries a Kahr K-9 in her purse. She keeps one in the chamber, and keeps it in a holster. Apparently he had the same conversation with her (which is probably where the "I guess I'm stupid" comment came from) with his telling her that carrying one in the chamber is unsafe and she probably said much of the same things I did.
But here's the issue. She's not exactly detail oriented and they have a five year old son. I can understand his concern about his son being around a loaded gun with no external safety and one in the chamber. However, this is not how he presented the topic. I feel like I was baited, as had he expressed his dismay at his wife's carry method I could have been more sympathetic. I tried to explain that she may be better off with a gun with an external safety, but that when she carries a gun, it should be in a manner in which she has control over it at all times. I explained to him that when his son comes over I secure my firearms and when I visit his house I secure them in a lock box because I know he doesn't want me carrying in his house.
Question #3 - What's good advice for the highest level of safety while still providing for a quick response should she need it?
This was a tough situation and discussion, as he is anti self-defense with a gun. He believes that the likelihood of my needing a gun is outweighed by the risks of me keeping one loaded, chambered and with me. I have, for years, tried to convince him of the merits of having a means of protection, but he does not see the value and really thinks guns are bad (except for hunting). He always claims that he lived in Richmond and he didn't need a gun. I explain that I don't know when I will need it, but that if I ever do I will have never needed something so badly in my life.
Thoughts, responses, and particularly information that would be helpful in easing his fears that carry with a round in the chamber and no external safety (condition zero) is reasonable.
Thanks for the help.
Jackie Treehorn
