Giuliani on Gun Control, 1993
- Thread starter eric.cartman
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Deanimator
Member
And all too often, those trains end up going to a place surrounded by barbed wire. Here those places were called Manzanar and Hart Mountain. In the Soviet Union they were called Vorkuta and Kolyma. The Japanese called them Cabanatuan and Los Banos. And of course the Germans called them Auschwitz, Dachau, Treblinka, Sobibor, etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSk4SUpWVuY
This is fun, Go on google, or youtube and search a candidates name and then the word scandal or corruption
Like so, giuliani corruption, ron paul scandal....
have fun.
This is fun, Go on google, or youtube and search a candidates name and then the word scandal or corruption
Like so, giuliani corruption, ron paul scandal....
have fun.
Fair enough.
I'm not saying it WOULD happen with someone like Ron Paul heading the Executive Branch. By "BS slogan" I just meant that there needs to be a "why". Doesn't have to be complicated.
Just remember that there are plenty of people who say that everything would be so much better if Al Gore were President. Maybe so, but I want to hear how and why.
WRT Waco, I do have a question, though. It is my understanding that there were a good number of un-taxed NFA firearms found. Is that not true?
If it is true, then isn't it F-Troop's legally-assigned job to enforce the law?
How do we reconcile constitutionalism with not letting them do it?
I'm not defending them, just asking.
Hey AB,
I tried to find the answer to this question too. I do know for a fact the local law enforcement had previously been out shooting with the Davidians, and the locals seemed fine with them.
However that doesn't mean they didn't also have a stash of the "really good stuff" somewhere.
The problem is they came in, burned the place down, and then filed all that evidence. So we are trusting that the ATF is on the up and up about them being NFA.
My conclusion is we'll have about as much chance of knowing how many licks to get the middle of a tootsie pop.
[EDIT to add] This might be helpful (or might not): http://www.jaedworks.com/shoebox/waco.html
Like I said I tried to find out, but it all about who you believe.
[/thread drift]
*If* it's true, and you accept it's highly unconstitutional role as "legal", then yes, *BUT*...
That'd make them tax collectors, not a paramilitary police force. I'm no fan of the IRS, but at least they don't shoot your wife in the face if you don't pay your taxes.
Titan6
member
This has been done, redone and over done. Rudy is an anti. He has never been for anything other than anti. This will not change should he be elected.
Deanimator
Member
Yeah, but they WILL troll zipcode maps for poor people who can't afford lawyers and file fraudulent collection actions against them for taxes and penalties they KNOW aren't owed. After THAT, somebody ELSE may come and shoot you in the face if you don't pay.
Master Blaster
Member
Yea they were all melted into a heap of slag by the heat.
They didnt find one illegal machinegun at WACO, or at any of the gunshow tables the Davidians ran.
Did you know that an ATF agent had infiltrated the Davidians and was living with them for close to a year, yet he never saw a single illegal machinegun?
Did you know that the morning of the raid the ATF infiltrator tried to tell the ATF not to conduct the raid because of the danger that the Davidians would see it as the end of days prophecy of their leader being fulfilled??
Did you know that the day of the raid, the Davidians found out one of their members was an ATF agent, and they confronted him about it in the compound?
Do you know what they did to the traitor????
They told him to leave, and he just drove away.
Deanimator
Member
1. The only "illegal machineguns" found at Waco were the ones brought there by the BATF prior to their ignominious defeat. The Davidians were convicted of "possessing" those guns which the BATF dropped when they skulked away under a white flag, hands in the air.
2. The prosecution introduced badly fire damaged firearms as evidence that the Davidians possessed firearms illegally modified to fire full-auto. When the defense won the right to have the forensic lab that analyzed the Challenger wreckage examine the "evidence", the prosecution withdrew it. I guess the prosecution considered it better to have no evidence of "modification" than to have evidence that it was the BATF itself which did the modification.
precisionshootist
Member
- Joined
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There is absolutely no credible evidence that the Branch Davidians had any illegal firearms. In fact the evidence is to the contrary.
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
Back to the topic of Guiliani's love of fascism, I'm wondering why more of the Republican Party can't see this.
For the love of all that is holy!!!
This man doesn't belong on a stage trying to become a President of these United States. If anything, he needs to be in an orange jumpsuit awaiting trial for the multiple crimes he's committed.
For the love of all that is holy!!!
This man doesn't belong on a stage trying to become a President of these United States. If anything, he needs to be in an orange jumpsuit awaiting trial for the multiple crimes he's committed.
Deanimator
Member
Because they don't WANT to.
The ones from New York, don't know any better. I pointed out the series of atrocities committed by the NYPD under Giuliani. His reaction, "Oh, NOBODY can control THOSE guys!"
If Giuliani couldn't [more like WOULDN'T] control the NYPD, why should ANYONE believe he'll control the BATFE and FBI?
With Giuliani in the White House, expect Wacos, LOTS of Wacos...
woof
Member
I really don't care what Rudy says or thinks about gun control. I'll still bend over backwards to get him elected over Hillary.
spartacus2002
Member
Simple answer, really. Many people treat their political affiliation the same as their religious affiliation. Because Giuliani has an (R) after his name, he is anointed and MUST be supported no matter what. Anyone questioning him is a heretic.
NOTE: this is not meant as a slam on religion generally, just an analogy.
Deanimator
Member
So then what you're saying is that you prefer the competent, tyrannical gungrabber over the incompetent tyrannical gungrabber.
What that says is that no matter what, you support a tyrannical gungrabber.
Deanimator
Member
I'm always tickled by Republicans who try to explain why I should want Giuliani to murder me and take my guns rather than to have Clinton do the same thing...
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
Generally, it seems to have to do (them telling you that) with the fact that they believe in war uber alles, and think that Hillary won't keep us in Iraq. She will obviously keep us in Iraq. She will also bomb (at the least) Iran. But the Republican playbook seems to be to discount this, because they actually believe most Republicans want Iraq (which it seems each day more and more do not).
There is also the belief amongst the Republicans that Hillary is some moonbat fringe candidate. She isn't. She is equally authoritarian.
If Guiliani is elected, I really don't know what I'll do, but it'll probably involve hiding under a rock.
There is also the belief amongst the Republicans that Hillary is some moonbat fringe candidate. She isn't. She is equally authoritarian.
If Guiliani is elected, I really don't know what I'll do, but it'll probably involve hiding under a rock.
woof
Member
No. What I'm saying is that it is never a good idea to choose leaders on one issue alone. I believe Rudy is the only alternative to Hillary Clinton, and because I care about some other things like fiscal responsibility, size of government and the long war on terror, I refuse to see Hillary in office just to spite the republican party for not nominating someone whose position on guns I might like better.
mordechaianiliewicz
Member
woof, I don't think you understand what we're saying here.
Giuliani will NOT give us balanced budgets, or act fiscally responsible. He will increase the size of government, not decrease it, and that long war on terror... if Giuliani is in office, we will see it lasting forever, and before it's all over, we might be fighting the French.
Now, because Giuliani's increase in government might be along the lines of increasing police power and presence as opposed to a national healthcare debacle, or that his overspending might be for overly priced toys from the military industrial complex instead of more welfare is immaterial for a traditional Republican.
You get to a point where you realize that with a Republican willing to rubberstamp police state tactics the way Giuliani is, it will make Democratic governments just as brutal, and that is what you want to avoid.
This isn't just about guns, this is about the future of this nation, in entirety. And as for the gun issue, Clinton and Giuliani support the same gun controls. As for police state tactics, they both support authoritarian goals.
A vote for Giuliani is the same as a vote for Hillary.
Giuliani will NOT give us balanced budgets, or act fiscally responsible. He will increase the size of government, not decrease it, and that long war on terror... if Giuliani is in office, we will see it lasting forever, and before it's all over, we might be fighting the French.
Now, because Giuliani's increase in government might be along the lines of increasing police power and presence as opposed to a national healthcare debacle, or that his overspending might be for overly priced toys from the military industrial complex instead of more welfare is immaterial for a traditional Republican.
You get to a point where you realize that with a Republican willing to rubberstamp police state tactics the way Giuliani is, it will make Democratic governments just as brutal, and that is what you want to avoid.
This isn't just about guns, this is about the future of this nation, in entirety. And as for the gun issue, Clinton and Giuliani support the same gun controls. As for police state tactics, they both support authoritarian goals.
A vote for Giuliani is the same as a vote for Hillary.
Deanimator
Member
I have four reasons to despise and reject Giuliani:
Louima
Diallo
Dorismond
gun rights
Notice where I place gun rights.
Giuliani is an authoritarian thug who never met an act of police violence he couldn't get behind. But I guess if you liked how the NYPD treated Abner Louima, you'll just LOVE what Giuliani does with the BATFE and FBI.
I wouldn't vote for Vladimir Putin. Why should I vote for Giuliani?
woof
Member
Hey Deanimator, no need to mince words 
I mean if you don't like Rudy just come right out and say so! Look everyone, vote for whoever you want. We get the government we deserve. Just be prepared for a republican party that looks at the gun people who let Hillary in the same way the Democrats look at the Nader people. I'll vote for Rudy because I think he will be vastly better for my country than Hillary. if you think Hillary would be better for your country then by all mean vote for her.
I mean if you don't like Rudy just come right out and say so! Look everyone, vote for whoever you want. We get the government we deserve. Just be prepared for a republican party that looks at the gun people who let Hillary in the same way the Democrats look at the Nader people. I'll vote for Rudy because I think he will be vastly better for my country than Hillary. if you think Hillary would be better for your country then by all mean vote for her.- Status
