Give us your huddled masses... Part 2

[NikoFoxFire]

Sorry for taking so long to respond, but the real world needed me
One thing before I continue further, I post because I like to debate, I'm interested to see your opinion, and I really do like the thoughtful posts. One thing I don't like is the flaming- please, I know I'm liberal, and I don't need to be called french, complain-y, or have it insinuated that I'm an illegal alien (or mexican for that matter). Debate, not abuse, thanks!

Now, with that bit out of the way, I have an open question for you- What makes an illegal alien? What makes an illegal into some demonic evil that is hell bent on dealing drugs and sapping our economy for our hard earned minimum wage jobs? Frankly, I don't see the distinction between a hardworking legal and the same hardworking illegal. One is at constant risk of deportation, while the other lives secure, knowing that he was one of the lucky ones who made it into the ludicrously small quota. I can't see why we brand illegals as guilty until proven naturalized, and even post minutemen at our borders to document them.

Now, before you go and say I have no solutions... How about this: Take the hordes of illegal immigrants swarming in through the sage brush, and condense them. Offer them safe passage, a paved road from Tijuana to the nearest American border town, with water and the like. On said road, post police officers, but not immigration officers. Have all immigrants searched, and arrest anyone trying to smuggle drugs or guns or whatnot. This way, the veritable human wave traveling through the Arizona desert is cut down by maybe 90%, leaving only drug smugglers, and not dead Mexicans abandoned by their Coyotes, in the some of the harshest weather imaginable. Since the weather isn't enough to deter the cartels, boarder patrol agents (formerly babysitting packs of immigres in the desert) are now free to stop REAL criminals, REAL threats to American security. Any thoughts?

 

[Biker]

Good God....
What makes an illegal alien?
An alien who enters this country illegally, first of all,
then demands free medical care, and bi-lingual ed for his kids, and refuses to assimilate, and celebrates Sinkhole De Mayo while flying the Mex flag on this "holy day" and ignoring the American Flag on Independance Day....
Just a few thoughts.
Biker

 

[Old Fuff]

The difference between a legal vs. illegal immigrant is that the former respects our country and its laws. They come to us and follow the sometimes-arduous procedures and processes that are required to “do the right thing.†Because of that they earn a right to stay here.

The illegal alien that sneaks into our country respects nothing but the color of our money. If they can earn more here then in they’re own nation they consider that we have no right to stop them from doing this, and a substantial part of what they earn is sent back to they’re homeland rather then spent to support the U.S. economy. In general they make no special effort to learn our language, or adopt our customs. They insist that we should teach their children English as a second language.

In they’re passing they ruin out property with their trash. They cut our fences; leave gates open, burglarize our homes, and even physically assault our citizens.

And if we are so presumptuous as to try to stop them we are called “racists,†and worse.

I know this, because I live within a few miles of the U.S./Mexican border.

And we, the victims of this illegal migration, have had enough of it.

 

[JohnKSa]

What's the difference between going 75 where the speed limit is 55 and going 75 when the speed limit is 75? Same speed...therefore there's no difference. Right?

What's the difference between driving a car with no license plates and one with license plates? Same car, same point-to-point, same everything--so no difference. Right?

What's the difference between taking off your clothes in your house and taking off your clothes in the mall? You're naked either way so there's no difference--right?

What's the difference between yelling "Fire!" at the shooting range and yelling "Fire!" in a movie theater? Same word, might even be the same people present--so no difference--right?

Don't you understand the concept of rules and laws?

Besides, being an illegal alien isn't so bad--I know, I pay for their "free" health care. That's why for the last three years my raise hasn't been enough to pay for the increase in my health insurance. Wanna guess which states have had health costs skyrocket in the last few years? Wanna guess why?

And as far as not being secure, what's the worst that can happen?--they get free transportation home. Wow, what a terrible penalty.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I suppose that it's too much to ask that the rampant generalizations in a debate be kept to a minimum...

...then demands free medical care,...

I think that illegal aliens should have exactly the same right to free medical care that native-born citizens do. Which is to say, none.

...and bi-lingual ed for his kids,...

See above. So I can surmise that your only objection to illegal immigration is that illegals have an annoying tendency to go on the dole, and that if the dole were eliminated you'd be okay with foreigners crossing borders without asking "mother-may-I" from the guv'mint? Serious question.

and refuses to assimilate, and celebrates Sinkhole De Mayo while flying the Mex flag on this "holy day" and ignoring the American Flag on Independance Day....

And this injures you or yours how, exactly? I want to hear about damages, preferably in dollar figures.

If they can earn more here then in they’re own nation they consider that we have no right to stop them from doing this...

Exactly right. It is not your concern who pays who how much - it's not your money. MYOB.

and a substantial part of what they earn is sent back to they’re homeland rather then spent to support the U.S. economy.

So now immigrants have an obligation to support the U.S. economy. Or do we all? Imagine my surprise. I had always thought that once a person earns their money, they have the right to dispose of it as they see fit.

In general they make no special effort to learn our language, or adopt our customs.

Why is this such a big deal for some people? Are some people so insecure about their culture that they have to get their panties in a wad whenever Modern American Society is offered les-majeste?

In they’re passing they ruin out property with their trash. They cut our fences; leave gates open, burglarize our homes, and even physically assault our citizens.

Here you have a point. Property owners should be free to prevent illegal aliens, or anyone else for that matter, from crossing their property (less easements and other relics of English Common Law.)

So you'd be okay (at least more okay) with the illegal immigrants if they would clean up after themselves?

And if we are so presumptuous as to try to stop them we are called “racists,†and worse.

Not naming any names here, but a struck dog tends to yelp the loudest...

- Chris

 

[Kim]

I'm sorry but the "What makes an illegal alien" so confusing is a mystery. I have never laughed so long and hard in awhile. If you are starting your argument will so little understanding it is a lost cause. Hint -----Get a Dictionary and look up the words illegal and alien. When you grasp that concept then MAYBE you might have a starting point of understanding. Sorry just toooooo funny. If you still have a problem ask a liberal judge who will probably be able to come up with some made up gibberish to satify your thesis.

 

[Firethorn]

NikoFoxFire,

I think we should just fix the whole system. I think that legal immigration should be far easier, especially for those who want to become productive US citizens.

At the same time get rid of the welfare state so they might as well go home if they can't make it.

Then mine & razor wire the border.

 

[EghtySx]

I think that illegal aliens should have exactly the same right to free medical care that native-born citizens do. Which is to say, none.

You are right, we don't have free medical care, our taxes pay for it.

Quote:
...and bi-lingual ed for his kids,...

See above. So I can surmise that your only objection to illegal immigration is that illegals have an annoying tendency to go on the dole, and that if the dole were eliminated you'd be okay with foreigners crossing borders without asking "mother-may-I" from the guv'mint? Serious question.

What do you think happens to the level of education of your kids when thousands of illegal immigrants, who do not pay into the system, send their kids to the same shcools and the money is spread thinner and thinner to accomodate these kids and their special needs.

And this injures you or yours how, exactly? I want to hear about damages, preferably in dollar figures.

What do you think your taxes would be if you didn't have to support others who do not support themselves? What about your insurance rates? How about healthcare? How much do you think of what healthcare costs is because of indigent care?

Quote:
If they can earn more here then in they’re own nation they consider that we have no right to stop them from doing this...

Exactly right. It is not your concern who pays who how much - it's not your money. MYOB.

Whose money is it then?

Quote:
[and a substantial part of what they earn is sent back to they’re homeland rather then spent to support the U.S. economy.

So now immigrants have an obligation to support the U.S. economy. Or do we all? Imagine my surprise. I had always thought that once a person earns their money, they have the right to dispose of it as they see fit.

You cannot see how this hurts the economy?

So you'd be okay (at least more okay) with the illegal immigrants if they would clean up after themselves?

You seriously see this happening?

Quote:
And if we are so presumptuous as to try to stop them we are called “racists,†and worse.

Not naming any names here, but a struck dog tends to yelp the loudest...

No one has a problem with race or immigrants. It is ILLEGAL immigrants that people are talking about. There is a difference. If you cannot see it, I can't help you. I doubt if anyone can

 

[JohnKSa]

our taxes pay for it

How much do you think of what healthcare costs is because of indigent care?

Ding Ding Ding!

We have a winner.

Illegal aliens exist within and benefit from a society that they do not contribute to in the ways that citizens do. Moreover, the penalties for failing to contribute are virtually nonexistant compared with the penalties faced by a citizen for failing to contribute.

Try not paying your taxes and see if the government offers YOU a free trip to Mexico and lets you off the hook.

 

[GT]

This is a ridiculous lefty tag-team troll thread and not worthy of the supposed "high road".

Let me explain:

First the lefties say "up is down how come you can't see this?". Then when you point out the empirical evidence that up is indeed up they insist you are being:

a) defensive because you overstated your case in harsh terms (the duh! doctrine)
or
b) bigoted because you can't acknowledge that people with up/down inversion syndrome are equally justified in their opinions (the xenophobe attack)
or
c) an unsophisticated rube knuckle-dragger because you don't see the paradoxical "downness" inherent in any supposed "up" event (the yin/yang argument)
or
d) a "fundamentalist" by not accepting up/down equality, and thereby parity (the "everybody else knows it how come you don't approach).

Guys and Gals, UP is UP and DOWN is DOWN.

Illegal anything IS ILLEGAL.

Posting silly passive-aggressive argumentative questions does not make you a societal anthropologist it just makes you a...
troll.

QED

G

 

[Preacherman]

Purpose of this forum:

Get informed on issues affecting the right to keep and bear arms and other civil rights. Coordinate activism, debate with allies and opponents. Discuss laws concerning firearm ownership, concealed carry and self-defense.

Purpose of this thread:

I have an open question for you- What makes an illegal alien? What makes an illegal into some demonic evil that is hell bent on dealing drugs and sapping our economy for our hard earned minimum wage jobs? Frankly, I don't see the distinction between a hardworking legal and the same hardworking illegal. One is at constant risk of deportation, while the other lives secure, knowing that he was one of the lucky ones who made it into the ludicrously small quota. I can't see why we brand illegals as guilty until proven naturalized, and even post minutemen at our borders to document them.

See a connection? No? Neither do I. Closed as OT.