Glaser Safety Slugs

[Marshall]

I'm looking for opinions on the Glaser Safety Slugs. Do they work as advertised? Are there downsides to using this ammo in a HD handgun? Do they penetrate enough? I see there's two types, blue and silver. Is one recommended over the other for certain reasons?

Thanks.



From Corbon:

"Glaser Safety Slug is the perfect choice for home and self defense. It offers reduced penetration in solid (inanimate) objects while delivering maximum stopping power with minimum danger of ricochet or over penetration.
The Glaser's thin-wall jacket and precision compressed lead shot core with a soft polymer tip. This construction provides an expansion, resulting in controlled disintegration. The round-nose ballistic design of the bullet profile guarantees feeding reliability and maximizes effective range with target grade accuracy.

Stopping power is maximized by the complete dispersal of the bullet energy into the intended target with immediate shock and trauma. This rapid fragmentation delivers the available energy over a large area. Stopping power is maximized with the optimum balance of bullet weight and velocity. The complete dispersal of the bullet energy in the intended target creates immediate shock and trauma. Glaser Safety Slug has unequalled muzzle energy available."

BLUE:
Glaser BLUE uses #12 shot compressed into a solid form. The Glaser BLUE produces immediate energy dispersal into the target, reducing the possibility of over penetration and creating abrupt stopping power. The numerous projectiles disperses outward generating an effective wound cavity.

SILVER:
Glaser SILVER is made up of #6 shot. With the Silver load, you get much larger segments; deeper penetration and controlled energy release.

 

[TexasRifleman]

If you even remotely subscribe to the idea that you need to run a couple hundred rounds of ANY ammo through your defensive weapon to verify function, accuracy, etc , then that alone counts these things out.

You'd be bankrupt.

That for me is enough reason not to go down that path regardless of whether they are effective or not.

 

[Manedwolf]

The best reason I've seen for someone using Glasers or MagSafes or any other prefragmented ammo is that they're supposed to break up in sheetrock, so are good for apartment dwellers or zero-lotline homeowners who don't want to hit their neighbors.

 

[RyanM]

http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound Profiles/357 Magnum Glaser.jpg

4 3/4" penetration? That'll bring a small varmint to his knees, I suppose.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/images/Wound Profiles/357 Magnum.jpg

Notice that a conventional bullet of the same caliber makes a bigger hole, and a bigger temporary cavity. Just plain better all around for anything bigger than a fat raccoon.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm

Glasers penetrate fewer walls than conventional bullets, but they're still potentially deadly after going through 1 or 2 walls, and are still an eye hazard after the third wall. I'd recommend practicing shooting more so that you don't miss, if you're that worried about overpenetration.

 

[Marshall]

I'd recommend practicing shooting more so that you don't miss, if you're that worried about overpenetration.

Thanks, but my concern is for collateral damage after a bullet goes through it's original target, hitting it is not necessarily my concern.

4 3/4" penetration? That'll bring a small varmint to his knees, I suppose.

I doubt you would take one for home team would you?


I appreciate the input.

 

[RyanM]

Overpenetration is vastly overstated. The holdback effect of the skin is enough to keep the vast majority of bullets from penetrating. According to the coroners and ER workers on here, even FMJs rarely make through-and-through wounds. It seems like about 18" of penetration in gelatin is the threshold at which a bullet may overpenetrate and still retain enough velocity to cause a significant injury. Just pick a good quality hollowpoint that expands reliably through the IWBA 4-layer denim test and meets their penetration requirements, and you'll be fine.

According to my calculations, a 147 gr 9mm hollowpoint of standard velocity that penetrates 18" of gelatin (only 0.482" expanded diameter) will have a retained velocity of only 375 fps after penetrating 9" of gelatin. That's ignoring the holdback effect of the skin. 375 fps could really hurt, and maybe even kill, but that's only about a hundred fps above the skin penetration threshold. For a 130 gr, .44 caliber sphere, 230 fps is necessary to just barely penetrate the skin of a cadaver's thigh. Back skin is a lot thicker than thigh skin, the skin on an exit side inherently requires a higher velocity to penetrate because of the lack of a backing, and an expanded hollowpoint is much less aerodynamic than a sphere. So it's more likely that the bullet would just barely plop out on the other side.

 

[sgt127]

I think the Glaser Safety slug will make a horrific flesh wound. If the target is impressed by that, he will go down. If he is high/stoned/drunk or determined and doesn't care, he will continue until he bleeds out. I have never heard of an innocent victim being killed by a round that passed through its intended target. I'm virtually cerrtain it has occured, but, I have yet to find a case. I do recall a bad guy guy getting shot in the butt with a Glaser and continuing on until it hurt enough for him to seek medical attention. Had that been a solid bullet of some kind, it would likely have broken his hip or pelvic girdle and dropped him.

In my humble opinion, the Glaser simply does not penetrate enough to stop someone through physical effects.

We recently had a shooting where one of our Officers had to shoot a pit bull. 180 gr Speer Gold dot .40. The bullet looked like it came out of Speer ad. Absolutly perfect mushroom. It did not, however, penetrate a 55+/- lb pit bull, and the dog simply walked off after being hit. He did die later. What is recognized as one of the best .40 caliber rounds out there could not flatten a 55 pound dog. I wonder how well it would work on a 220 lb Biped with the same determination?

I think expansion is vastly overated. We need to think alot more about the penetration necessary to get to the spine from any angle on any human when we discuss "stopping" power.

Spirited arguments may commence at this time....

 

[dfariswheel]

It looks like the Glaser has been "over taken by events".

Some years ago it was the hottest thing on the market and a lot of citizens and police used them.

For whatever reason, the police just as quickly STOPPED using them, and I know of no agency that uses or authorized them now.
I'm not sure if any SWAT teams still use them for anything other than possible highly specialized purposes, if that.

What seems to have happened is, the design of modern defense ammunition has simply progressed beyond the Glaser and has replaced it for the simple reason that newer ammo out-performs it.

Starting in the mid-1980's modern bullet design came into it's own, and we've seen a steady progression of more and more effective ammo.

Before the 80's, you could have deep penetrating bullets, OR expanding bullets.
Now we have ammo that expands greatly, but still penetrates deeply.

Just as newer ammunition passed the old highly touted Super-Vel by, the Glaser appears to be "old technology" by-passed by the newer "super bullets".

 

[Marshall]

Well you guys are answering the questions I had, I appreciate it.

I've never felt I need to switch HD ammo but when you read about the Glaser stuff you have to ask. Besides, since they make it sound like the best thing since sliced bread, I've always wondered. I'll stick with my Hydra Shoks, Gold Dots, SXT's and Silvertips. For HD and primary carry, I use nothing in my ownership less than 9mm so they should do me fine. My 870 comes first anyway.

Thanks.

 

[JERRY]

bullet design is almost irrelivent because the ones that miss the target are far more dangerous than the ones that might exit the target.

 

[tlend]

All I'll say is that my .45 only exists to get me to my 870. That ends my penetration/bullet effectiveness concerns.

 

[226]

Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

I would not use it. Page 5 (reference above).

 

[carpettbaggerr]

4 3/4" penetration? That'll bring a small varmint to his knees, I suppose.

Dunno, unless someone is really fat, I doubt their heart and lungs is more than 4 inches back. I'd bet their brains ane less than an inch.

Yes, yes, I know that's best case frontal shots, without accounting for someones upper arm blocking the torso on a side shot. But 5 inches is more than enough to kill a normal human under many, if not most, circumstances

 

[Manedwolf]

Despite their web page looking like a bad CounterStrike ad, does anyone know anything about the Extreme Shock "air freedom round" as effective or not for the same sort of application?

 

[RyanM]

Dunno, unless someone is really fat, I doubt their heart and lungs is more than 4 inches back. I'd bet their brains ane less than an inch.

Yes, yes, I know that's best case frontal shots, without accounting for someones upper arm blocking the torso on a side shot. But 5 inches is more than enough to kill a normal human under many, if not most, circumstances

Glaser Blues use #12 shot. Those are 0.05" wide. A spherical .05" projectile will make a 0.033" hole. That's only slightly wider than a sewing needle. What would you rather be stabbed in the heart with, a dozen 4" long sewing needles, or a 12" bowie knife? Even the Glaser Silvers are little better. Then it's more like 3 or 4 ice picks vs. the bowie knife.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Well #12 shot weighs .18 grains and a .38 Special Glaser has an 80 grain projectile. If the slug was just birdshot, that would be 444 pieces of shot.

Even with the copper cup and polymer nose, it would be more like 300 sewing needles in your heart.

 

[Soybomb]

Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

I would not use it. Page 5 (reference above).

Thats more succinct than I could have been. Same goes extreme shock, rbcd, and whatever other exploding fang face antiterrorist nuclear low penetration ultra energy transfer round someone is selling.

 

[RyanM]

300, only if you first chop open the chest cavity and then shoot the heart directly. The shot disperses pretty quickly, especially if the bullet hits a bone (which is pretty likely in a heart shot). Only a very small percentage of the pellets would actually be on a collision course for the heart, even if the bullet's original path was aimed right at it, and fewer still will penetrate deep enough to do any damage. I'd say a dozen is probably a reasonable estimate of the number of pellets that would actually do any serious damage to the heart. Maybe two dozen if the shooter is really lucky, or shootee very unlucky.

In any case, that's only if you're lucky enough to hit the heart directly. Limiting yourself to low-penetration ammo removes the spinal cord, inferior aorta, vena cava, kidneys, and many other structures from the viable targets list. Unless you shoot someone in the back, anyway. Would you hunt deer with birdshot, if you were positive that the shot would penetrate 4.75"?

 

[Steve C]

The effectiveness of Glaser safety slugs is well documented. In the shootings where they have been used they stopped the assailant about 100% of the time, the down side is they’re about 100% fatal which is one of the reasons police don’t use them except for special situations. Originally designed for air marshals as a solution to the danger of bullet penetration in a pressurized air plane, Glassers have some disadvantages. Because they fragment after penetrating hard objects they’re not effective against an opponent that’s behind even the most flimsy cover. There may be times when you need to shoot through something like a door or wall and Glassers are not the round to use.

Many years ago when living in an appartment I’d bought some .38 spl Glassers and kept them in loaded in my .357 mag. Now living in a detached house I load conventional expanding ammo. Because of the light weight bullet I’d be a little concerned about functioning in a semi automatic and the expense of testing reliablity would be prohibitive. In a revolver its not an issue, neither is its point of impact as in close home self defense situations you’re shooting at very short range, probably less than 10 yards and an inch low or high doesn’t matter.

If you are worried about over penetration then Glassers would be a viable option but in reality the odds of hitting someone from a round that’s passed through a wall or bad guy is pretty small, lots of space and few people in it, even in a city or multi family living unit.

 

[RyanM]

The effectiveness of Glaser safety slugs is well documented. In the shootings where they have been used they stopped the assailant about 100% of the time, the down side is they’re about 100% fatal which is one of the reasons police don’t use them except for special situations.

Mmmm, that Cor-Bon kool-aid tastes good, doesn't it? Gee, maybe I'll go hunting some warthogs tomorrow, using some Extreme Shock .25 ACP!

 

[Soybomb]

The effectiveness of Glaser safety slugs is well documented. In the shootings where they have been used they stopped the assailant about 100% of the time, the down side is they’re about 100% fatal which is one of the reasons police don’t use them except for special situations.

Lets see that documentation

 

[MICHAEL T]

The best reason I've seen for someone using Glasers or MagSafes or any other prefragmented ammo is that they're supposed to break up in sheetrock, so are good for apartment dwellers or zero-lotline homeowners who don't want to hit their neighbors.

Only if hits at a angle 90 degree will go thru even corbon says this.I found very expensive and inaccureat when I tried. Has a record of poor penteration on street

 

[carpettbaggerr]

The point wasn't hunting deer, it was the depth of penetration required to reach vital organs in a human.

I would not hunt deer with birdshot, but do you doubt a load of #7 would kill a deer if you shot it at less than 20 feet?

 

[RyanM]

The point wasn't hunting deer, it was the depth of penetration required to reach vital organs in a human.

I would not hunt deer with birdshot, but do you doubt a load of #7 would kill a deer if you shot it at less than 20 feet?

It would most likely create a gaping, festering wound that would kill the deer of shock or infection hours or days later, unless one of the pellets hit a major blood vessel by chance. Almost the same with a human shot with a Glaser Blue. The lungs are relatively important, but a Glaser would probably only take out one, and a person or animal can live on the other for quite a long time. Silvers might be a marginally better bet, but I think I'll stick with Golden Sabers.

 

[The-Fly]

Despite their web page looking like a bad CounterStrike ad, does anyone know anything about the Extreme Shock "air freedom round" as effective or not for the same sort of application?

extreme-crap ammo appears to be deadly when used on mall ninjas and net commando's. Real world gel testing shows it to be hugely overpriced crap thats more likely to get you killed instead of the bad guy. I am no fan of Glasers, but i'd take glasers any day of the week over extreme-crap ammo.